The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> MODERATOR CRAMER: We will begin with introductions with each speaker and move into new policy innovation idea, so we will be exploring that. And then we will begin working through the questions I read, but as blocks. In these different blocks we will invite room participation for feedback so we can have that ongoing conversation throughout the session.
With that, I will give the mic over to Natalie to introduce yourself.
>> NATALIE TERCOVA: Thank you so much, Dana, hope everyone can hear me well. I'm Natalie Tercova, I'm here as representative of IGF Czechia and within ICANN, I'm a researcher as part of my day job and been following youth initiative, not only in my region but global ones, some events or cooperation for workshops and events. So I hope today we can all share insights, maybe challenges we are facing, what next steps we can take to improve these initiatives to empower youth as stakeholders in the internet governance ecosystem. Thank you for having me.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, Denise, we will flip over to you online. Can you introduce yourself?
>> DENISE LEAL: Thank you, I hope you can hear me. Today's talk will be interesting, not only talk about youth and innovation, but marginalized people, Global South. I'm excited because of the thematics, I'm the Latin America Network and Caribbean Group, I hope to talk about this topic and hope you enjoy it.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, and we especially appreciate you battling time zones, I think it's quite late for you right now. Wonderful. Tabitha, would you like to introduce yourself?
I think as we wait for some participation, Daniele, you are our Online Moderator, would you like to say hi so our group understands your role in this session.
>> TURRA DANIELE: Hi, everyone, this is Daniele Turra, from Youth IGF Italy, I will be co-moderating the session, even if you are here on site or online, wherever you are connecting from, please feel free to use the chat so we can better engage, if you have any thoughts, comments or questions, I will be here to make those inputs heard here on the panel. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much. We have our organisers, I would like to recognize Vlad on the stage.
>> VLADISLAV IVANETS: My name is Vladislav Ivanets, I'm this year youth Ambassador, and working on preparation of this session. Finished the plans to cover some important issues with the emergence of the global digital compact which is a big thing and everybody is talking at this event, and I hope we will be able to cover some perspectives but also we have a few topics to focus on, and I hope our speakers will be able to cover them.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, I would like to recognize Gael, another moderator for the session and Aaron as Rapporteur. We will start with our digital cooperatives session. My name is Dana Cramer, I'm from Canada. I lead an organisation called youth IGF Canada and I'm a 2024 Internet Society youth Ambassador as well, as my purpose for being here this week.
So data cooperatives are a type of data intermediary that leverages long-standing cooperative model to manage data for the benefits of its members who are data producers and stakeholders. Collective ownership and fiduciary, they empower individuals and communities to enhance privacy by ensuring the data usage aligns with member-defined rules to improve insight and foresight capabilities enabling a larger pool of stakeholders, ensuring fair distribution of value among members and unleash a new wave of innovation, by creating transparent data flows that could be leveraged for research development and societal good.
So data cooperatives are more of an idea, they aren't widely in practice. However, some historical parallels and relevance include trade unions and cooperative banks. So during the industrial era, they distributed power and resources creating more equitable systems. In the digital economy, these cooperatives balance individual and collective interests, the pitfalls of tokenized economies we tend to see as an issue of concentration within network effects.
By aligning with different types of cooperative alliance principles including democratic control concern for community they provide a resilient framework for addressing individual equalities.
This brings us to the first question that we will address today as a panel. We have James online. So James, if you wouldn't mind unmuting yourself so you can give an introduction as our final speaker for this panel.
>> JAMES AMATTEY: Hi. Thank you very much.
It took me some time to set up. I'm James Amattey, I'm speaking from Ghana. I am joining this session where we operate on a more data open governance level. But I'm speaking in my personal capacity by using that experience to bring a new best practice to this conversation.
So I do hope that we have a very nice conversation around global digital compact, and then data cooperatives. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you. We will be starting with our first question, which is what governance frameworks are needed to support the successful propagation of youth initiated digital or data cooperatives across various global contexts and how can global institutions champion these initiatives?
Some sub questions we will be working through as we explore this broad policy question, we will begin with, where do you think youth are building up digital networks in your respective region. Natalie, I will start with you, as our in-person speaker.
>> NATALIE TERCOVA: Thank you so much, Dana. For context, I'm here representing IGF Czech Republic in central Europe, so in my region we are facing issues that may not be the same in other regions and countries.
Currently the main topic for what we see is the issue of digital divide, but on the first level which may be the access to technologies, it terms of laptops, devices but also to be connected when it comes to Wi-Fi connection and internet coverage. But more focusing on the lack of skills when it comes to the effective usage of technologies.
We currently lack some robust frameworks when it comes to education, educating young people in terms of media literacy, digital literacy, championing skills such as programming and so forth.
These things are not yet embedded in the curricula from elementary spanning university schools. This is something we currently see as a big challenge we have to overcome, in a way. Because we can see the youth initiatives specifically in the area of internet governance and in digital discussions in general really thrive and make a difference.
So this would be currently the biggest challenge we are seeing.
However, there is a big emphasis on making this happen. There are already some initiatives from companies. Companies that are operating on the global level. But also those who emerge directly in the Czech Republic, trying to champion the skills to offer some form of (?) programme.
Not offering these forms of solutions. We can see they are trying to learn, they are trying to improve this. However, we still miss the robust framework to make this happen. This would be probably my opening statement to this. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Wonderful. Thank you.
I think what I'm hearing from you is the importance of organization. And a recognition of multistakeholders coming together to really champion these so they could become more institutionalized.
To that, I will ask Denise. In your region, what are some examples of global institutions championing youth initiatives, so building off what Natalie was saying.
What do you see in your area for how this is actually played out?
>> DENISE LEAL: Okay, perfect.
So it's very interesting when we bring the topic of data across Latin America. Specifically, because we need to improve a lot. We do have the legislation and while we are signatories for the treaties that brings this discussion, but we don't consider the specific traditional communities when we start to discuss the regulations.
So the biggest improvement we would need to work with would be how we consider traditional knowledge and the data that comes from these communities in terms of natural resources and genetic data and how we do protect and consider the sovereignty of these groups.
Because in reality, we are not considering their sovereignty in terms of data. Here in Latin America and Caribbean region.
We need to improve this but as good topic for our discussion, not only a call to action, I would like to say that in terms of innovation, we do have some work we need across Latin America Caribbean.
I can see about our programme from Brazil, local innovation agent implementing it at the local level, which I think is very interesting and impactful.
I have a lot to say about the topic, but to start the discussion could be interesting.
The specific programme is implemented by government and private sector together, so it can really have an impact on different people and the interesting part of it is that it works with people who doesn't know ESG and data framework and data collection and we start to teach them through this project.
So I will stop here because I think it's just a small thought right now. And then I will speak more on these topics. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much, Denise. That's wonderful.
James, what types of opportunities do you think other stakeholder groups can help buildup digital or data cooperatives in your region, specifically. So we get that, starting with Europe, moving to Latin America, and then hearing the African perspective as well.
You are muted right now. It happens to all of us.
>> JAMES AMATTEY: I will speak from the African perspective. In Africa, the data gap is very wide. There's a huge discrepancy between the data we need, the data we collect and the data we are allowed to share.
There's challenges in collecting the data that makes it difficult to share. There's always these very rigid frameworks about how this is collected, how it is shared.
I come from a community background where we do a lot of community-led initiatives. So for example, I sometimes contribute to Wikipedia. And in that space, it's a community-driven approach where members the community come together to collect data on specific topics.
It's the same with the (?) community where we are constantly contributing to collect data source.
We need to be able to understand what the digital enhance processes are. How do we collect data. Where is it going to be stored and who has access to it?
Because I do a lot of open data, I strongly advocate for an open data and open governance model where everyone has a stake in the data. The more everyone has a stake, the more we are likely to increase the quality of the data we produce. And then the more useful the data becomes to everybody.
Take a look at my work with the OpenStreetMap community, it has various uses for humanitarian organisations like protection, lie detection, and we also do a lot of disaster response with that data.
You can see, because the community came together to produce that data, it becomes more meaningful and people are more passionate about it.
I personally advocate for an open data model where people have a stake in the data. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thanks, James, for really highlighting that really important to ownership of data.
As well as the peer production model.
With a very concrete example with Wikipedia as well.
Keith, thank you for making it here today. I'm not sure if you would like to introduce yourself. And potentially discuss how digital and data cooperatives are working in your region and being championed by youth?
Keith, are you able to hear me on the headset?
As we continue to sort out few technical difficulties, the digital and data cooperatives have been the first block we have had to think more on a radical level for the youth-led futures.
We would like to invite the audience for any questions and Gael will be able to run the mic around the room to make sure we have again that peer production in how we understand too. If you have a question or would like to provide any form of intervention to help formulate our report, we ask you to raise your hand, so we can get a microphone over to you.
>> Thank you for this, my name is Lina and I work on the Council for Tech and Social Cohesion. My question is what actually needs to change? Is there a policy or is there (off microphone) to come into existence. Is there a barrier you need to overcome? Because the idea itself clearly has value.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much for your question.
Keith, I'm not sure if you would like to start that off, as well as introduce yourself for the panel to get that conversation rolling?
>> KEITH ANDERE: Thank you so much. Apologies that I came late. I forgot my badge, so I had to go and look for another one. And then when I got in, I think I tuned to channel 1 and I was looking and feeling lost because of another sound that seemed like it was off.
But nonetheless, I'm happy to be here. Thank you so much for accommodating me and for the organisers for putting this together. My name is Keith Andere, from Kenya, African Civil Society group. Leader for youth IGF. Very pleased to be here today to contribute to the discussions. Especially for us from Global South. Because now this speaks to one, I come from a continent where it is believed to be the most youthful continent. So the issues of data, the issues of digital future, the issue of privacy are things very dear to the youthful population from Africa.
I believe, you know, not only just to the Global South but to the rest of the world.
As I settle in, I'm happy to take up the questions and yeah, contribute. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, for our first question from Lena, what types of policies or business models will need to change to allow for business and data cooperatives to flourish in our online environment?
>> KEITH ANDERE: Super, that's a fantastic question. My reflections will largely come from Africa. At least where I come from. You will find that even before we get to the level of data cooperatives and policies, we are still grappling with very basic fundamental policies.
Policies of data privacy and data protection. We are also seeing a lot of gaps in terms of harmonization. We see this as a challenge when it comes to data flow. Where data is resting in Africa, for example, now pushing for agenda 2063, what we are calling the Africa free continental trade area. Making Africa one trading block.
The opportunity there is the digital economy and the digital businesses. But then these barriers are a hindrance, you know, in terms of how do we govern our data. One being produced by businesses. Two, data sitting either from government, and these are all biometric, iris, all this data.
The kind of policies that would unlock this are all regional policies, as opposed to national policies so this creates an even playing ground to ensure that cross-border data flow ensures citizens moving from one country is something we can plug in and use, at the same time make sure this data from a regional perspective is harmonized. I think E.U. are being harmonized. But Africa is lagging behind. But we also need to strengthen and back up this data protection kind of laws with creating a kind of laws that transnational crime also. Because data is, as they say, the currency, the 21st century oil, you know?
The only asset to drive economies to the future.
So just to answer the question again, I think the point is harmonization. Financial resources, that to me is still a big challenge right now.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much. I think teasing out your answer is the importance of regionalism within data and digital cooperatives. Recognizing yourself as part of a broader block. And in current geopolitical tension that is rising and creating less free trade, you have free trade agreements you see European Union and African Union, that could be a disruptor.
We have been talking about Europe, Natalie, could you also provide input to the speakers, or to the panelist's question so we can also have that pluralistic multi-regional recognition of answering it?
>> TURRA DANIELE: Before you answer it, we also have a question I would say you are the best person to answer to. And the other question online is she is an academic researcher Anju De Alwis, do you think there are advantages to harmonize education data and for example higher certificates, accreditation and do that for other regions, for example. For the African region.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, so combining those two approaches of policy but also including the educational policy element too within the answer.
>> NATALIE TERCOVA: Thank you, I think it makes perfect sense. I thank Anju for the question, this is pretty much what I wanted to touch on. I act as a lecturer in a university, why I see there are gaps in the understanding how we can actually take back the ownership of our own data. Sometimes people still lack the knowledge, what is happening with the data. Sometimes personally myself, I don't know. There are all sorts of terms and conditions and we can ask ourselves honestly if we read them, do we know the consequences once we accept. As my colleagues said about the harmonization. We have to take a step back, what is the real barrier between us knowing them and knowing where they are circulating. Who are these parties? Do we have access to them and what are they going to do with it? I think taking it back to the question of education and raising some form of awareness and creating a framework that would span various levels of education would make perfect sense.
If we are not aware of the consequences and terms and so forth, how can we even ensure that everything is in order, and everything makes sense.
But also, why should we even be interested in the first place in this issue, if we just don't understand what it means and what it encompasses.
It is not something secret that currently the data we all own and provide, sometimes we provide it and we don't know about it, and we don't know how actually important and rich all this information are.
We are just putting out there, we don't understand the consequences or how third partis are using it to their benefit and sometimes the benefit is very big and very pricey. So we are putting all our specific forms of values out there without actually knowing how they are going to be used. And how maybe it would be different, we would still be the owners of them, how we can make sure there are youth innocence that would be happy about it and encouraged to use in a different way and creating communities or hubs where this data we agree to use, would be used, if that makes sense, I hope.
Thank you for these two questions, I hope I touched on both, I agree education here as well as other discussions revolving around data governance and handling is crucial and where we should start.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you for bringing up the business model perspective. How we need more transparency how data is using and decomplexifying how it is used. James, I saw you had your hand up earlier, but I'm not sure if Natalie touched on what you were going to say, which is why it might have gone down, or if you would like to speak?
>> JAMES AMATTEY: Yes. She took the words out of my mouth. But just to add, I think we need to look at data (?) we need data to be able to sync to each other, talk to each other, right? It should not be difficult for me to take the data here in Ghana and make it useful in Kenya. It looks like the current state of data harmonization. That is very difficult for us to unify data and protect it.
The more data spreads, the more complexity it has. So we need to be able to reduce those complexities to make sure the probability is prioritized and then, you know, we can be able to build the cooperatives that drive development.
I do hope I answered that question.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you. I think that really teases out business models as well as interoperability and needing businesses to work together potentially through enforced memorandum of understanding agreements, or enforcement of entering into trade organisations with specified goals to allow for more data justice.
Denise. I think you had a comment on this. I know you also had some context about how Indigenous governance models can also be reflected into digital and data cooperatives. If you would speak to your planned perspective and also adding that in too, please?
>> DENISE LEAL: Perfect, thank you. When it comes to Indigenous data what some don't understand, some data are public in the internet. So you can access it and it doesn't have regulations that says that you have to take it out of the internet or be careful with it.
Just an example, we have all the locations of the Indigenous groups on internet. And it's not categorized nor as sensitive data, neither as personal data because it's the location of the families. Specific location of each one. It's not the location of a house but a whole group.
So how you could ask for it to not be there because, well, in which category of data is it considered? It's not this is the thing, it's not considering here in Brazil and you cannot ask for it.
An example of what problem it can lead is the Yanomami genocides were accessed in the internet and other platforms were used to map their activities. And then the people that work with mining went to these groups, these families and they have killed, raped and committed other crimes against this families. Well, we can see the disposition, the fact that Indigenous data on internet and other spaces, so freely and easily to access really leads to real problems.
And these are just some examples of problems. But we do have another kind of problem, just like the natural resources data is also available through the DSI's in internet and it cannot -- it doesn't have any kind of regulation about it.
So how can you really care about the nature resources data because it's related to history, future and other aspects of Indigenous families. It doesn't have a way to protect it.
We have many problems related to this kind of data. Because it is, this data are sensitive but they are not considered as personal data, because they are related to a collective group.
So the thing is, the person who in our audience made the question, which is very interesting, about what should we change to allow data cooperatives and what are they regulations related with it. So here we could say that data cooperative could be an answer to Indigenous data.
If they could regulate and the people managing their data, they could have a data cooperative to manage the natural resources cooperative, for example, but we don't have enough to support data cooperatives here.
I believe it would be data cooperatives in Brazil, we don't have enough considerations in the law to have this model of governance and allow groups to manage and to own some kind of data. That's it. What I wanted to add to this discussion.
I am worried that we need to better improve our regulations to encompass data cooperatives and also to encompass the size data of natural resources and to consider specific groups and their sensitive data and their specific cases so that we don't promote exclusion through the law. We are not promoting exclusion, we are promoting inclusion, here in Brazil and also in other countries.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much, Denise. Before we end this specific block of our workshop, are there any further questions from the floor over here? Gael, if you wouldn't mind running the mic.
>> This is a super interesting topic. Definitely one of my favorite workshops so far.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Sorry, name?
>> My name is Siena from the United States, I'm here independently. My question is for people who don't really know much about data cooperatives, think your average every day person, how do you get them onboard with this, and what does implementation actually look like, with people who aren't in the tech space or in this kind of space?
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, Daniele, is there a question in the chat that builds on this to help our panelists combine their answers?
>> TURRA DANIELE: There isn't specific question about this in the chat. I would just have a short comment of that, even if I'm not technically a speaker. And then I would like to have maybe Tabitha for a quick comment because she would be interesting in giving a comment as well.
I will try to be very brief. I've discussed during these days about the actual implementation and what kind of shape it could have as a concept.
The main incentive for local businesses and Civil Societies organisations to get into the cooperative could be actively, to get digitized first of all. The point is if you don't have the source of data, data cooperatives as a concept kind of fall down.
I believe that the keyword in there is digitalisation of processes, of both businesses. And also in a way, normal and traditional businesses think about construction, agriculture, everywhere around the world.
All of these organisations need to digitalize the processes through URP's or CRM of any kind of
The key revolution here could be about who is providing the tools for them to get digitized, and in particular, I'm thinking about the products.
And the concept of having debt data getting managed through an intermediary, that could be for example, an NGO itself, where all the organisations receiving those digitalisation products and skills could get a stake in.
And then the intermediary that is collectively and cooperatively managed could decide what those data could, you know,, where that data could go, right?
In that sense, think of having first of all digitalisation of businesses step one. Step two could be having a platform to allow all these organisations to sell their products and services to larger audience. And the third step is about having that intermediary actively sell or manage that data on behalf of the members. This is kind of the data. First of all, need strong implementation of digital processes in all of these organisations.
With cooperatives we have the chance to do this responsibly.
I hope this is clear.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: And Tabitha, one of the organisers for the panel, you had some comment you wanted to weigh in?
No, okay. We will move to the next area, closing the block right now for this section so we can get through each of the policy questions. Our next policy question broadly is how can current digital frameworks be adapted to prioritize youth leadership in decision making, ensure effective tracking of funding and what lessons could be learned from other spaces involving youth digital leaders.
We have some sub questions for the panel to approach. First and foremost would be youth-led initiatives. How many funds do you need to engage youth. Have you experienced barriers due to lack of financial support?
We will start online for this with James. If you would be able to unmute yourself to speak to this point?
>> JAMES AMATTEY: Yes, thank you for the question. I think the cost of data collection is one of the most underestimated parts of building a data cooperative, right?
It's not just boosting data infrastructure, it's the cost around setting up the community so we are looking at devices for collecting data. Support for the individuals who collect the data. All of these things are an important part of building the data cooperative.
Most of my work is done around volunteer-led data collection where volunteers come together to collect data at their spare time, on their own time, right? But sometimes even that you still need to spend money on building capacity. Building skills on how to properly collect data. How to properly validate the data and store the data.
These costs can sometimes stifle the progress we try to make around these data cooperatives, right? Because the people that are cooperative to build the model. If the people are not supported in one way or the other, you know, sometimes stipends, sometimes, you know, getting internet, most of the data collection models you would have to upload the data online. And we look at things like internet costs, which is one of the very key, should I say barriers to active participation of community members.
How do we look at supporting communities we hopefully wish to rely on in the future. And how do we also look to support organisations that are coordinating these communities to be able to do more work?
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much.
Natalie, if you wouldn't mind also discussing this. On this element of funds to engage. Because you are in quite a few different digital leadership initiatives and stages and all of this costs money. I know with your robust experience, you could potentially shine some light to it. Kind of build that history when you work on one initiative what the cost for that, so we can better understand like what James was just discussing costs that don't exist yet with the data and digital cooperatives.
>> NATALIE TERCOVA: Thank you very much. It's no surprise the issue money and funds is the most crucial when it comes to effectively engaging the youth.
I would maybe start by saying I personally perceive that the biggest issue is youth are not perceived as a specific stakeholder group in many forms.
Sometimes there's categorization we have government, and we have the Technical Community and then there's the rest. And the rest is like Civil Society, and youth, and me coming from the academic atmosphere and research point of view, I don't think our insights and angles to certain topics are in line with what young people have, children have, or broader, this big bag of Civil Society. When we talk about effectively engaging youth and supporting initiatives we shouldn't treat them as this big Civil Society bag. Because then when we want to highlight initiatives and make somebody understand it, it's really needed to bring them somewhere, to bring them as equal stakeholders to debates on the GDC or other processes or the topic of digital governance, or simply being here, getting them here to IGF, having a voice and speaking. It's so important not to treat them just as Civil Society. We have many other representatives already, usually they don't receive any form of support or mentorship or funds because usually there's somebody else taking the spot and it's usually not that pricey because they have their own connections already. This is a short coming when it comes to treating youth initiatives. They basically don't have the support they need. Still need to build these networks and generate some form of support as they go.
It's like a vicious circle. If we would have them here with us, or any other forums or events it would probably be easier for them to raise up why their voice is important and then get some connection so eventually generate enough support for them to come. But if don't have the support in the first place, there's not much we can do about it. So usually we struggle with getting them somewhere. We always see from the government some options like you can submit a paper, or submit a report, or your opinion written somewhere. But you never know how and if even it is implemented, which is of course an issue.
The other thing, if you are not in the room, we all know how this is, you are automatically excluded from the discussions happening outside the rooms, over coffee, which is usually where the real work is happening.
If we don't engage them, engage them really where these things are happening, they are losing to equalness in this debate eventually.
With this I want to say that I was part of many also youth-focused initiatives in the internet governance ecosystem also when I was starting being interested in these topics myself, spanning from ITU, world economic governance where I met Daniele and working with those studying in high schools and having some forms of fellowship on various levels.
We can see this is a very good practice coming from the big organisations and initiatives who already understand they need new perspectives of young people. If we keep on talking about the internet for the future, we should include those who will be living in the future. I think this is fundamental to understand there are specific form of stakeholder group. We need to have them somewhere as equal partners to the discussions.
However, if we don't provide them the opportunity to come, then we are excluding them.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you. I think that perspective of youth as a stakeholder group is so important. Especially as we are headed into WSIS +20. Maybe put in a recommendation, update the stakeholder model WSIS to include youth as a stakeholder group. It wasn't recognised in the first iteration, it wouldn't be abnormal to request another stakeholder group.
But also as you were saying, youth initiatives really rest within opportunities for youth as well.
We can't have youth-led initiatives if we don't also grant youth opportunities and create multiple points where you can be in the room.
Also with WSIS and the GDC, if the GDC's review is tanked with WSIS in Geneva each year does that create funding issues to get to Switzerland to be part of that conversation and what does that mean for stakeholders around the world to get there. And is IGF better to travel around the world because we travel with it.
Can tell us about your journey becoming a young digital leader and using digital frameworks can differ from other youth community leadership to you?
>> DENISE LEAL: Yes, thank you. I started with youth programme and IGF and now I'm in the youth coalition. We can see that this organisation, these youth organisations are strong when they are in discussions.
We need to be stronger to be more involved in policy-making processes, I think. Not only here but also worldwide. I can see on the other hand on the other side we already have, we do need to be more involved in policy making, but we already have some good results of our work in digital governance and related to internet governance and other spaces.
And I am really trying to bring the discussion in traditional communities this year, so if I'm speaking about it, I can say that some young people and the younger youth organisations along with other stakeholders have achieved very special thing that I wanted to share here.
We have some tradition language in Google translator and in other platforms which allows them and other groups to share data from these communities that speak this language. And online information.
This is a result of work of young people, not only this but we can see other improvements.
We have been improving how the discussions on internet governance works across Latin America, Caribbean and we are trying to have a more dynamic way to guide and to lead these discussions, so we can really hear everyone and encompasses everyone in every aspect that needs to be in the discussions.
We do have some local initiatives that are impacting youth in other people's lives.
I can see that the young leaders have worked well and have the knowledge they need the knowledge to be --
>> TURRA DANIELE: Sorry, Denise, we are having some technical issues, okay, it's okay now?
>> DENISE LEAL: You cannot hear well?
>> TURRA DANIELE: Now, it's okay.
>> DENISE LEAL: It's okay. Anyway, I was almost ending my topic. I just wanted to say youth leaders have been doing a great work by making the digital governance more inclusive and effective in this aspect. So we do need to keep this work and keep looking for these groups that are not usually part of the discussions.
When we involve these groups and work for them, we are really making a great impact.
I can see it here in Latin America, Caribbean, this year if I speak for my experience of youth IGF, I can say we had many sessions that brought these discussions and we have the chance to work with people that are working with community networks and this is very important in terms of the GDC.
It should be more there, more considered in the document, but it is in the document. Not as much as it should be, but it is, which is a victory, we think.
Community networks are also an answer to places where we don't have access to internet.
So here in Latin America, Caribbean, we have not only young people but other groups working with it. But specifically talking about young people. We have an organisation like KEEST, Indigenous organisation that works all across Latin America, implementing community networks in Indigenous places where it's really far and it's really difficult to access internet.
So they are doing a great job.
So we have those examples of youth work and youth involvement in digital governance. So we've got to value them to give support and also to involve them in policy making because we do have practical work to show and results to show.
I wanted to say this. I am feeling that I am giving a lot of call to actions but I hope I gave some good examples to you what our youth work here in Latin America, Caribbean looks like. Thank you.
>> TURRA DANIELE: Yes, thank you. Very useful indeed. I want to turn it over to you, Keith. Can you give us some insights?
>> KEITH ANDERE: Thank you, not only in Kenya, but having been a youth leader and led African American youth movement. I think number 1 I agree with what colleagues have said. But most importantly, I want to highlight there's a need to institutionalize youth engagement.
Because what we have seen, especially in this digital spaces, I think youth engagement has almost been kind of hand-picking, kind of engagement, you know?
Because the interest is small so the people who come into the kind of spaces are more personalized and not institutionalized kind of youth engagement.
I haven't seen much of engaging youth institutions, and youth institutions here, youth networks, youth organisations, especially those working at the grassroots level.
They have the aspect and element of digital inclusion, digital rights.
So maybe one aspect that we really need to do is look at how do we support youth networks? How do we support youth organisations themselves? To grow their capacity so they become our change-agents in the sense that there's continuity. I have seen situations in Kenya, there's an opportunity to engage young people. But as we grow older other things come in, so we tend to drop in. Now I have a family. I have another opportunity. I have a job. We tend to drop off. The thing about this advocacy and engagement, it's a long-term game. By the time we realize long-term milestone some colleagues who understood the process have already dropped off.
I agree with what the colleague said about having youth as a stand alone stakeholder group.
I think from an African IGF perspective, this is something we really pushed a few years ago to ensure that youth are considered as a stand-alone stakeholder group.
There was youth in stakeholder in Africa IGF. But what has happened over the years is that progressive thinking has been reversed back. Now they are saying, look, we don't need a youth sit, but we can get youthful people. Which I think is detriment to the kind of progress we want to see.
Then lastly, we cannot underscore the importance of resources. It's a two fold thing. One, there's a lot of resources. But on the flip side there isn't any resources that gets down to the people.
I think one way we can ensure that young people are getting these resources is to also look at this (?) donor expectation. Some operate as loose networks. So by the time you are getting some little funds to go into something, they want a whole list of things.
Make sure you have audit for three years...
This is a coalition of young people coming and operating as loose networks.
So how do we in our funding models look at ways to fund the unfunded? And the unfundable? So that we include those people who don't have the usual structure but they are actually doing the work at the community level.
I will stop here. Thank you so much.
>> TURRA DANIELE: Thank you, Keith. These are all meaningful points.
We have the first one to recap, how can we ensure like we heard several times during this event that the youth is not on the menu but at the table and you can't keep them out of the table.
Also, how to ensure a sense of continuity. And lastly you answered the question of resources that we all experience every day. And especially last week, two weeks ago, we had an event and experienced firsthand this, how to fund these loose networks of organisations.
James, is there something you want to react on?
>> JAMES AMATTEY: Yes. I think, so, the problem we currently have in the multistakeholder engagements is the priorities. Each stakeholder has their own priorities when it comes to data cooperatives.
Yes, we may align on the mission, but the priority might be different.
So you could see that the commitments may wade as time goes on.
What I would have loved is to have maybe certain funders of data cooperatives in the building, if there are some. Maybe they can tell us their perspective of what they look out for in sponsoring these cooperatives? What is their mission? What is their goal? And how can we work together with the grassroots to be able to align properly?
Because, yes, they have the funds. But we need to be able to align that correctly with the people that are grassroots level, on the youth level. And be able to get the message from the bottom-up.
Sometimes it's very difficult for you to be up there and then have what it takes to be at the grassroots level.
I think, maybe, if we can get some funders, some government, if they are in the building to help us understand their perspective, what they are looking for joining these cooperatives and how we can better work together.
>> TURRA DANIELE: Thank you, James and Keith for your valuable inputs. I think the theme on opportunities for youth are very important.
As we mentioned so, so many times, youth is very hard for youth as a stakeholder group to get actually represented because they do not have the experience, they do not have working experience. Most often they are, in a way, residual stakeholder group. Instead we need more and more opportunities and more independent coalition initiatives to get them involved.
In terms of opportunities, I would like to let Tabitha Wangechi, an online participant to give her some time, just an input.
Just please be aware of time. We are expecting to finish this session in a few minutes and we would like to move to the next item.
Please, Tabitha, the floor is yours.
>> TABITHA WANGECHI: All right, hi, everyone. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak. I think I've been trying to speak for a very long time. But finally I'm able to speak.
I actually wanted to point out the fact that in Africa we have very limited access to quality, trusted and reliable data. That's why it's very hard to create these cooperatives in Africa. And even policies starting from there.
For example, I have worked as, let me say a gig worker, not a member of a data cooperative in Kenya.
At the time, it was foreign-led but it was coming to Kenya to pay us to collect data and submit to them. At the time I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't know I was getting involved in this business of a data collective. So looking back, I saw how much data we collected and the amount we were paid.
It makes me think in Africa we need updated laws on employment, for example. Our employment laws are ten years old.
They don't address the digital era and the plight workers go through in digital cooperatives to be able to gather that data and be paid the amount you deserve. It's not clear because we don't have laws for that. So there's a huge room for exploitation. Aside from that, we are in a room with big tech because they have a lot of our data they are holding. For us to access it, we have to pay to have it.
This conversation is very timely. I see data cooperatives as the future for the data market.
It's going to be big, it's going to be highly valued. Is Africa where we are positioning ourselves to capture this moment and not be left behind and be exploited by big tech and the Global North.
We need to secure the finances we need. It's actually very expensive, number one, if you are establishing a reasonable, well-established business model in the data cooperative world, very expensive, resource extensive, you need people who are educated that can get you data that is quality, reliable. You cannot just get the data from anyone.
Also we aren't looking for academic data. Dana, I'm sorry, I know she is a researcher in academia. We need to avoid data that is too academic, we need real data from real people. Pulling data together, defining these revenue models that work for us, that make people trust they can give their data and be compensated.
We can build a future where data is easily accessible, reliable and we can now sell our data for a profit and not just be exploited for data by big tech and not be paid anything.
As Africans, we need to come back home and have discussions, update labor laws and harmonize data, between countries in the continent, I know the African Union has been working very hard on that.
But still we have a very long way to go when it comes to creating sustainable data cooperatives in Africa. Thank you for the opportunity.
>> TURRA DANIELE: Thank you, Tabitha. It's very insightful to have your insights from a firsthand perspective and not only as a theoretical concept. Vlad, you want to add something?
>> VLADISLAV IVANETS: Yes, I would probably answer Tabitha's question, and raise the talk, I think the implementation of this document, it's really enabling Africa region and south region to be an active part of the digital economy we all live in currently. And it's very enthusiastic connecting 2.6 billion people who still remain not connected to the internet by 2030.
It seems quite doable. I mean, if the whole world will join this programme.
If we will have data collaborative work in this regard.
So I think this document is big and really discussed throughout the communities and provides opportunities for those really searching for help. And it really highlights the problems that younger generations are facing right now. Because we all know that young people using the internet they sometimes have problems connected with sexual abuse and misinformation and many, many other problems that they are struggling from living in digital Cyberspace.
I would like to open the floor for the discussion of global compact, if I may.
I think we kind of ignored this one. And this one is important.
Yeah.
I mean, I would invite our speakers to speak on this one.
>> thank you, Vlad, I'm more than happy to kick start this conversation, one core principle we see with the global digital compact, we want inclusive participation and want the Internet to be a trusted space. There's discussions of the ideas and values of the GDC to provide a trusted platform for everyone to feel safe online.
The European perspective and topics I have been working on the past few years, I'm constantly thinking of children and youth as end users, and what types of opportunities but also risks do they face online?
In the past days at IGF, I have been delivering several talks on the problematics of child sexual abuse materials. And all sorts of harmful content that are circulating online. And yet, who should be responsible for hosting this materials online. What happens for those who reshare these things, download these things. There's still so many question marks and threats in the internet, not only for youth but other vulnerable groups.
We can do more for those who are very much at risk of being vulnerable and having their well being it negatively affected due to the limited frameworks, or also maybe regulations within the online environment.
Because currently, unfortunately we still cannot say the online platforms and internet per se is internet that could be trusted for everyone. I'm having high hopes GDC may be a good place to have rigorous frameworks to really one day say the internet is here for us, to help us, help us thrive, help us use the opportunities they provide, while making us able to mitigate the risks and stay safe as best as we can.
Keith, if I can do this move and put the floor over to you, so you can add whatever you have to say to the global digital compact?
>> KEITH ANDERE: Yes, thank you. I think the GDC is a very timely kind of conversation that's come up. Talking about the injustices and inequalities that come with it. But most importantly, what we see as a very progressive aspect from Africa is the development of the adoption of the African digital compact. Which then aligns very closely with the global digital compact but it speaks to the African priorities.
The biggest questions here is the implementation. If we don't figure out how best do we have this implementation, especially in Africa we are going to have a challenge.
It speaks about stakeholder consultation. How do we ensure the stakeholder consultation is not a high level stakeholder consultation but very low level grassroots consultation, so we can move, we are able to move together, ensuring no one is left behind.
Many SDGs leaving no one behind.
I think also we need, I speak from an African perspective, we need to see the harmonization itself between the U.N.-led process and also the regional African Union, making sure we have synergy between these two entities so it becomes a key player in terms of implementation and making sure we are bridging digital divides, insuring we have affordable and accessible digital technologies.
I think also the challenge Africa is being faced with is skills development and digital literacy. That still remains a huge challenge and it comes with a level of general literacy, right? In Africa, we have a number of people who are still illiteracy. There's a lot of mismatches, if you go to the education systems, unfortunately many African countries are using now and where the future is going in terms of future work and skills for the future, there's a whole mismatch. It's not new university produce graduates, you go to university with a degree (off microphone)
30 years ago when I was in Computer Science school. The kind of technologies I was landing, by the time, everyone is looking at me, like boy this is something for the past generation. Planning again on the market.
I think this is one of the key issues.
Again, balancing innovation and regulation, managing technologies is something from an African point of view, we really need to pay close attention to, all of these emerging technologies, AI and all these things coming in, we are quick to say regulation, let's try to make sure there's some sense of regulation. But I'm sure that doesn't stifle innovation. To bridge the gaps you are talking about, the skills development and digital (off microphone)
Where we have Indigenous and native languages how can we make sure the data is in these Indigenous and native languages and are translated.
Wikipedia, I would like to see my local dialect for example, so I'm able to share this to my grandmother, for example, and she can understand.
Taking religion for example, we have bibles and Koran even that has been translated into the local dialect to make sure, you know, my grandmother, back in the village,
I think these are some issues that we really need to think about. To me, I'm into the implementation. Everything on paper looks good, but how do we need to go to the ground.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you very much, in our last six minutes we will work through audience questions and I would like to thank Gael and Vlad, I had food poisoning that came at an inopportune moment. Do we have any questions in the chat to address the final few minutes?
No? We will move to audience questions.
I think we will start with the woman to the side here, in these last five minutes and we will move to Aaron afterwards in front.
>> Thank you very much. I've enjoyed the conversation and a lot of learnings.
I have like two concerns. One, when it comes to data collection, but secondly, integrating youth. It is repeated from two speakers how, when have the youth onboard, eventually they will go out because they get older.
I'm thinking, maybe while we are looking at challenges, the current challenges that are here, is it not -- is it, how do I put it?
Does the youth not have a responsibility on pulling other youth while they know they are moving out? I think that is something you should also consider. Like I would be very interested to know you, as youth, what do you think about that. We like to think on governance level they aren't including us. By the time you are done, you have another group of actors.
The other aspect, I've learned in data protection, I'm very interested in aspect of data protection.
One of the things I've learned, in technology right now, we are so much pushed to solving problems. But instead of solving the problems and learning about what has been done, we leap ahead and start solving the problems, whether it's collecting data, finding solutions. You find a lot of duplications so you have a limitation of resources and you are duplicating something that is already existing.
You might find you are collecting data which already has been collected somewhere. You are solving a kind of solution that has already been solved somewhere.
And to be honest, most of the solution provided by the youth are usually very unique, because they sort of represent the youth themselves.
I have shared an observation and a question. I would really like to hear from that.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you, I think Natalie wants to start us off with this question. We will move to an online question just for balance between those in person and virtually.
>> NATALIE TERCOVA: Thank you, I would love to give my perspective on your first question. I had these discussions with many of my colleagues in the previous days, how do we make sure we are not the lost youth in the room and representing what 18 years old want and what challenges they face. It could differ if you are close to your 30s or 18. What I'm personally trying to do in my region is go to schools, the last years of the elementary schools and high school and do workshops, tackling the issues we deal with, because saying internet governance and all these things abbreviations or short cuts. It could be very scary and sometimes young people feel it doesn't concern them at all, or they don't understand what it means.
I'm trying to think of the real implication, for example of the GDC, how it will affect me as a person. How I can benefit as a young person, or what about my family, friends or young person.
How they could be affected by these forms of legislation. We are here, discussing so many real-life issues. We have some sort of code names for them, more fancy sometimes. We are including not just for inclusive barriers but the language using.
What I would suggest is to go always back from the bottom-up approach. Go back to the schools. Go where the youth is gathering and tell them this is actually your place to shine.
We are actually willing to listen. And these, all sorts of weird terms and abbreviations, all these actually have some physical form and eventually some outcomes, to try to provide some real examples and through this make them excited about it and hopefully bring them onboard.
As you say, if we don't have real young people represented, we are missing the point and eventually someone trying to make sure they are at the table will say, well, they're not interested. So let's not invite them any more. This would be my insight on this first question you are asking.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Thank you. To kind of give our closing comment answering the question, I want to give the floor to Denise, who I believe has the largest time zone difference and has really taken time out of her sleeping time. I want to give the closing remarks to her to also conclude the question.
>> DENISE LEAL: Thank you.
Well, I think the discussions are pretty interesting here today. We got the chance to hear lots of different opinions. We see that the situation of not only data but also youth participation, governance and innovation is similar, but also different across the world.
And bringing this youth perspective from Latin America, Caribbean and also speaking about participation this year, I was involved in a dialogue about how we could involve teams and people that are not really, don't really have access to innovation and digitalisation. How we can involve them in these processes.
I heard an answer that I think I could bring here.
That is, we have to give the chance to these groups, and other youths to develop and to create innovation.
So by understanding that our educational system is not the best one we could have, we are beginning this discussion to be like effective.
We should implement more technological that could implement things from different places and also when it comes to traditional people to give them the opportunity to create their own innovation and their own technology.
I believe this could be an answer, an effective answer to really involve these other groups and to make the discussion of how we can make not only youth, but other marginalized people really involved in the process in the digital governance and how we are developing our innovation.
>> MODERATOR CRAMER: Unfortunately we are getting the signal and also our transcription also ended with the hour. I would like to thank our panelists and tech support and participants and King of Saudi Arabia for hosting the Internet Governance Forum this week. Aaron has been collecting comments for the final report for the Secretariat in early January. If there are any last remarks please feel free to reach us, can find the contact information through the IGF, names and affiliations.
Thank you so much. Have a great day.