The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished speakers, participants, good afternoon. Welcome to this pivotal session on the forum on internet governance. It is an honor and a privilege ‑‑ very interesting format.
Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished participants, esteemed guests, good afternoon. Welcome to this pivotal session on Internet Governance Forum 2024 here in Riyadh, and we will be focusing on the theme of sustainability. My name is David Okpatuma. It's my honor to serve as your Moderator for this session.
As we got in the heart in the Middle East, a region known for its visionary strides in innovation and development, today's conversation would reflect the urgency of our time, the need to harmonize progress with sustainability, and the global digital ecosystem continues to expand at an unprecedented pace.
So it offers now new opportunities for economic growth, for social inclusion, and technological breakthroughs. However, it is also presenting unique challenges that demand our immediate attention and collective action. This session will explore the interconnections of technology, governance, and sustainability by examining how these can converge to address some of the most pressing issues of our era, such as climate change, digital equity, and the transition to greener economies.
We're privileged today to have with us some exceptional professionals and speakers who will be speaking on this panel. Their work exemplifies the transformative power of collaboration. So, ladies and gentlemen, permit me to introduce firstly Dr. Mohammed Al‑Surf, the founder and president of sustainability professionals of Saudi Arabia, whose ground‑breaking work and initiatives in sustainability and sustainable designs and green certifications have set benchmarks in the region and beyond. You're welcome, Dr. Al‑Surf. It's good to have you.
Also, we have Ms. Maria Fernanda Garza, who is the honorary chair of the International Chamber of Commerce, and she's an amazing visionary advocate for global standards in sustainable business practices and transparent progress tracking. It's so good to have you join us today.
And, last but not least, we have May Siksik ‑‑ I hope I pronounced that right ‑‑ who is the chief executive office of the Canadian innovation network, which is a network is in the margins of newer strides of collaboration and partnerships for global development workers in health and other strides. It's so good to have you join us on this session. Moving right into it, I will start by mentioning some of the areas that our conversation will focus on and then address some questions to our speaker. We will be able to have some submissions from the audience and probably directed questions to some of the speakers just in case we have enough time for that.
Our discussions today will focus on four thematic areas, and this is one investing in the future, building transparent metrics, bridging the digital divide and establishing green certifications, which sets the benchmark for industry‑wide sustainability.
(Inaudible).
‑‑ growing from the wealth of knowledge and experiences both by our speakers and esteemed listeners and guests. Before we begin, let us remember one thing. Sustainability is not merely a goal. It is a shared responsibility and transcends borders, industries, and disciplines. Together we have the power to shape a future where technology serves humanity and the planet. So thank you all for joining this session, and we are going right into the conversations.
I will start first with you, Dr. Mohammed. Tell us, please, how can sustainable design principles and green certifications, such as LEAD, be leveraged and advance energy‑efficient data infrastructure and green technologies in Saudi Arabia and, of course, the Middle East by its extension while addressing the scary challenges and globally recognized sustainability benchmarks in emerging economies?
>> MOHAMMED AL‑SURF: Thank you very much for this. Thank you, first of all, for IGF for hosting us and this amazing event, which highlights the importance of approximate internet and technology and sustainability. I focus on sustainability basically in the (inaudible) environment, but I've a cross‑sector professional. That's why we cover all aspects we deal with on a daily basis. Internet is one of them, and technology is, again, for expanding technology and expertise.
Looking at where we're heading with internet, with data centers, and all of that, certifications come into a pivotal role to play in reducing the overall consumption of energy and greenhouse gas emissions. Just before I joined today I was kind of just refreshing my numbers and updating my figures about energy consumption, data centers, and all of that, and it's quite astonishing where we're heading, the trajectory of energy consumption, but taking into perspective Saudi Arabia as one of the fast expanding markets in all aspects, but mainly in internet and data centers and AI.
The energy consumption of all the resulting carbon emissions coming from it is going to be exponential, and globally we're looking at 1.3 percent to 3 percent of energy consumption just for data centers. So when we talk about sustainability, when we talk about the certifications, it's not just about a typical or one certification per se, but what's the main goal behind it?
So the green building certification for LEAD, for example, it looks at different aspects, different perspectives ranging from energy‑efficiency, environmental quality, and all of that.
There is also the true certification for zero waste. There's the rating system for sustainable infrastructure. There's the local rating system and many, many other certifications. For energy itself we're looking at energy star rating system. Certified that the equipment itself is energy‑efficient. It's not ‑‑ it's not really kind of ‑‑ there's no kind of right answer or solution to go for. You can use a combination of any of these certifications, but what is the main goal? What is the KPI you want to look for at the end of the day?
Looking at where we're going and looking at the amount of equipment that we're going to have in the near future, some of the targets are looking at 2030, and I'm pretty sure we're going to reach those targets or KPIs before that, and Saudi has proven that they have reached several of the KPIs before 2030, including tourism and other sectors.
So our target is basically to look at what innovations are available. Not just from the certification point of view, but the energy efficiency technologies that we can have. The new innovations, for example, emerged data centers that they're emerging in solutions that can reduce energy consumption 30 percent, 40 percent, instead of just cooling them the traditional way. So there's a lot of pieces to this puzzle, and it's like these platforms, like these forums that is we were discuss where are the difficult parts that don't link together and try to solve the issues together?
It could be days here to discuss this topic, but I'm interested to hear what my other colleagues have to say about this.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Thank you very much for that submission. It interests me because with some of the submissions you made, I basically have one follow‑up question, in fact, because obviously we understand that we are the first Saudi to basically be a faculty ‑‑ to be a faculty member of the U.S. Green Building Council. Based on that, it shows that some of the initiatives you implement here works, and with your over 9,000 members in the association you found it here, for example. How are you able to export your results because with the metrics currently we have the sustainable development goals targets, I mean, having 17 percent success rate. How are you able to mitigate this with your expertise and experiences as someone who has been able to achieve this level of results in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East? How are you able to export these results?
>> MOHAMMED AL‑SURF: It was a difficult journey, to say the least. As you mentioned, I was one of the first few in Saudi to basically tackle the sustainability industry, one of which was being the U.S. faculty back I think it was 12 years ago or something like that. A lot has happened since then. But several kinds of, let's say, obstacles have been ‑‑ I've seen them over and over again. Is this good? Yeah. Okay. Good? Okay.
So, anyhow, the obstacles basically start with lack of awareness, and that's why I approached to be a faculty basically 12 years ago. Lack of awareness, lack of initiatives that can advance people to really do something with their capabilities. We're not talking about rocket science here. We're talking about something that people, normal people, can do and contribute to the industry.
Over the years educating the professionals, indicating the public, it was evident that there needs to be a body or an entity that can be an umbrella to communicate all of the efforts that Saudi Arabia is doing and promote the efforts done by other entities or individuals. So that's where the Sustainable Professionals Association came into play.
The idea was taken actually adopted from the international society for sustainability professionals. I became an associate with them, again, a few years back. I tried to get them to come to Saudi, but they don't have that in their business model. The other way around it was to actually initiate our own entity and become a member in that international association. So that's what happened here.
Now, the numbers you mentioned are actually outdated. I need to go back and check all of my social medias and update the numbers. We're actually beyond the 16,000 members from 95 different countries. It's not just Saudi Arabia. So that shows you how people are eager to find something that they can be part of as a community. That's basically SDG 17, the partnership parts.
We're over 95 countries participating in this association. It's open platform for everybody to contribute. Through this contribution, through this community we try to kind of tackle the challenges that we find. It's not just for Saudi Arabia. It's for the region, for the world. We're not part of planet C or D. We're one planet. So anything we can do here in Saudi and take it as a model and deploy it, export it to other entities or governments or countries, you know, we are happy to have Saudi Arabia as your testing ground or as a platform that we can actually contribute to the rest of the world. That's what's happening now.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Amazing. That submission just gave me the perfect motivation to go and get your book, "Ten Steps to Become a Sustainability Professional." I think that will be a very good read to help replicate your processes. Thank you for that.
Next, we will have Ms. Maria Fernanda Garza. So as a visionary and a global advocate for global standards, especially in sustainable business and practices, why do you believe the integration of data is essential in driving sustainability efforts? How can standardized data platforms and transparent metrics, for example, supported by organizations like the ICC, drive sustainability efforts to enhance the SDG progress tracking, for example, and to empower businesses, particularly SMEs, while addressing the barriers to global consensus on data integration and accountability?
>> MARIA FERNANDA GARZA: Thank you. Thank you very much. I am so happy to be here on this very important panel. As Honorary Chair of the International Chamber of Commerce, I represent businesses across the globe that are deeply committed to driving inclusive, sustainable development through innovation and collaboration. Just for those of you who are not familiar with the ICC, let me tell you a little bit about it.
ICC is the business representative of over more than 45 million companies in more than 170 countries. So we are basically the world business organization. Through a unique mix of advocacy, solutions, and settings, we promote international trade, responsible business conduct, and a global approach to regulation. Our members include most of the world's leading companies, but also SMEs like myself and business associations and local Chambers of Commerce.
ICC was founded in 1919, and for over 100 years it has served as the voice of business across many international organizations and multistakeholders like this one. So today I want to focus on the interplay between the digital transformation and sustainability. I would like to highlight the shared responsibility that businesses, governments, and other stakeholders have to ensure that technology advancement really benefits the people and the planet.
Digital transformation, we all know, it is a powerful catalyst for sustainability that it's capable of reshaping industries and driving environmental, social, and economic progress. At its core the utilization enhances efficiency, reduces resource consumption, and fosters innovative and sustainable solutions. So one way in which digitalization drives sustainability is through data and analytics. The ability to collect and to analyze vast amounts of data allows businesses and governments to make informed and optimized decisions and resource use and minimize environmental impact.
For example, the smart grids and the AI‑powered energy systems can monitor and manage energy consumption in realtime, improving energy efficiency and reducing waste. This can be applied to everything from renewal energy integration to optimization of supply chains, leading to more sustainable business practices across all industries.
Another significant area of sustainable product development and (inaudible) economy. Digital tools like the 3‑D printing, the internet of things, and the block chain allow companies to design products with longer life cycles, track the sourcing of materials, and ensure the products that can be more easily recycled and repurposed.
So this shift towards a circular economy helps reduce waste and minimizes the depletion of natural resources. Digital technologies also empower better management of these same natural resources from agricultural to water management. Today precision agriculture uses the internet of things and AI to monitor the growth of the crops, optimize irrigation, and to reduce the use of pesticides and fertilizers. So these not only leads to more sustainable farming practices, but also contributes to food security and improves livelihoods.
But the role of utilization and sustainability extends beyond just technology and innovation. As more people gain access to digital technologies, they can participate in the global digital economy. This can have far‑reaching impacts from improved access to education and health care, to greater economics opportunity for marginalized communities.
When people are digitally connected, they have the tools to unlock their own potential and to contribute to inclusive growth and social equity, which are key pillars of sustainable development. And the benefits are many and far‑reaching. The key challenge here is ensure that they are shared widely and that we manage these technologies responsibly, keeping sustainability at the heart of everything that we do.
This means developing and scaling technologies that minimize environmental impacts while maximizing social and economic benefits. Businesses are leading this effort by developing innovations like AI‑driven energy optimization and renewable energy power systems, but these must be supported by clear policy incentives and public/private collaboration.
That plays a huge role in today's global economy, and it's essential for running businesses, delivering government services, and fostering international cooperation. Simply put, that helps us make better decision, whether it's tracking progress on the SGDs, or finding gaps in connectivity. It is crucial for businesses or governments and for the community to act with more precision and accountability.
So that said, mistrust in data is on the rise. A lot of it comes from the complexity of understanding data, how it works, and the risks that are involved in handling it. There are also concerns about sharing data across borders that could impact national issues like security, like privacy, and economic safety, and this fear is driving more countries toward data, localization, and digital protectionism, and these policies restrict the data ‑‑ the free flow of data.
While these policies may feel like they protect the national interest, they often lead to more fragmented internet systems, which can make the economy growth more difficult to manage. To fully unlock the data's protection, we need ‑‑ one that is built on trust and cooperation that really protects individual rights while enabling cross‑border data flows to drive innovation and growth.
Furthermore, digital transformation cannot be sustainable if it leads billions of people behind. The digital divide remains stark. Entire regions lack meaningful internet access, and too many people face barriers to participation in the digital economy. So closing this gap requires targeted investments. First of all, we have infrastructure. We need to expand the resilient connectivity through diverse technologies that are tailored to the local needs and conditions.
Also, locally relevant applications and services that are responsive to the unique needs of each community and they're accessible in their own languages. Third, we need skills to equip people with the tools and abilities that they need to really thrive in a digital world.
This is not just about connecting people to the internet. It's about unlocking human potential. It's about creating resilient communities because when people are empowered to participate fully in the digital economy, the effects are very profound. New markets emerge. Innovation accelerates, and societies prosper.
So none of these goals reducing environmental impact, optimizing data for sustainable development, or bridging the digital divide can be achieved in isolation. Collaboration is absolutely essential. Businesses most innovate responsibly investing in sustainable technologies and inclusive practices. Governments must create enabling environments with policies that incentivize green innovations, support digital inclusion, and uphold ethical standards for data use.
Civil society must hold peoples accountable, ensuring all voices, especially those from marginalized communities, are heard and are considered. The IGF exemplifies precisely this guide of multi‑stakeholder comparative that we need to address these challenges. It is in a space like this one where ideas can transform into actionable commitments and where diverse perspectives can shape a shared vision for a sustainable digital future. So digitalization has the power to accelerate progress towards more sustainable and equitable work, but this progress will not be automatic. It requires intention. It requires innovation and collaboration at every level.
So international cooperation in meaningful multi‑stakeholder input and an evidence‑based policy‑making can help ensure the digital technologies are not only a tool of convenience, but in terms of transformation that will drive sustainability and prosperity for all.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Thank you so much for that informative and yet inspiring submission. When you were making some submissions, some questions and thoughts come to mind. Then the next comment you make answers that. So I was hoping to ask you some questions, but it seemed as though you kept on answering them, and that leaves me with one question. We understand that in June of 2022 you became the first woman to be elected as the chair of the International Chamber of Commerce. My question is a bit personal. Have there been any noticeable challenges for you personally in advancing some of the sustainability agendas you have, personal agendas now? Not corporate. You already answered all aspects.
>> MARIA FERNANDA GARZA: Yes, there have been many challenges. I come from a country that invented the word machismo, so you can imagine. I have seen in the last years a transformation. Saudi Arabia portrays it so beautifully. You can see in the past five, six years how much things have changed. So that really brings me a lot of hope for the rest of the world because if you can accomplish it here if you would have asked me ten years ago, I would have said that that was not possible to happen, then every country in the world can accomplish it. Not only in gender equality, but also in precisely utilizing all of these technologies to improve the livelihood of all the citizens of the world.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Amazing. We will have one last speaker, and after that the floor will be open to you amazing participants and audience to make contributions, ask questions, and hopefully we address all of these and come up with very good outcomes by the end of this session.
Dr. Mohammed, Ms. Garza, they all mentioned vehemently the concept of collaboration. So what does the Canadian Innovation Network do to advance these levels of collaboration to be especially local, underserved communities, marginalized communities? How are you able to represent the voices of all sectors not in their national or most popular forms, but even in hard-to-reach societies and situations? How are you able to do that in your network?
>> MAY SIKSIK: Thanks, David. Is this working? Okay. The very first time I was really truly exposed to interdisciplinary collaboration was through my Ph.D. I'm an engineer by training. My Ph.D., it was the intersection of engineering, medicine, and biophysics. It was the very first time that I really was exposed to interdisciplinary collaboration and the potential impact that that can have. I won't dive into what I did for my Ph.D., but one of my favorite topics. That really got me thinking about what else can be done when we sit together ‑‑ when the right team sits together to design a solution.
So we used to be called, by the way, Canadian Innovation Network. We've recently changed our name as of several months ago to be Innovation Network Canada because we do want to be global. We're not restricted to Canada.
Innovation Network Canada, we're focused on addressing pressing global challenges using interdisciplinary and holistic ‑‑ I underline holistic ‑‑ collaboration, in a way that's aligned with the United Nations, SDGs. As you guys both mentioned, sustainability is not just a word. It really is ‑‑ it's sustainability and effectiveness of a solution that go hand in hand together.
The way we address this is with interdisciplinary collaborations that we start with our goals. I'll give you an example. For example, we're quite active in a few sectors. One of them is health care. We establish a consortium in health care in every sector that we have. That has tech companies that can come together to provide a holistic solution. So not siloed approaches, right? We create these projects and ‑‑ sorry about that. Got a little too excited. So we bring these companies together. That's one type of stakeholders.
We also bring end users to this consortium, people who want to use these technologies. They say, okay, once the solution is ready, we're going to use it. We bring in commercial entities that say this is a fantastic solution and we're going to commercialize it globally, and we bring funding organizations to this.
But I want to give an example of how we go about this. It's really important that we start with goals. What are our goals? Then go about achieving these goals. For example, in health care we know that we can have a lot healthier population with the technologies we have. We know we really want to cut down the cost of health care. We want it to be accessible to everybody. No one left behind, equitable, and inclusive. Okay. We understand, okay, to be able to do that, we really ‑‑ one of the things we need to do is to be able to provide a comprehensive picture of an individual's health. How do we do this? What are the different pieces of puzzle of human health? We need to look at realtime physiological markers. We need to look at biomarkers, what's present in our system right now and what can the biomarkers tell us about our health right now and where we're headed? We know that not only that we can do things like prevention and early detection, but we can actually on a population level we know where we are right now in terms of health and where we're headed so we can look at resources much more effectively and efficiently.
We also look at brain health. We look at economics. Finally, we really need algorithms that can crunch in all of this data to give us actionable insights and do this in a sustainable way. So we bring in companies that do ‑‑ that address these pieces of the puzzle, right? Wearables. We bring medical diagnosis, brain tech and so on. We drive these projects to, for example, to create an app so that you can ‑‑ one of the biggest ‑‑ one of the biggest challenges I know in health care in Canada and I'm pretty sure it's probably elsewhere in the world as well, you know, about 40 percent of the population, by the way, on a global level has some sort of heart disease. Maybe not very serious. Some of them are very serious. We have a chest band. We replaced a Holter monitor, which is cumbersome. We've developed a fabric chest band that you can throw in the wash, but it can do your heart ‑‑ your EKG analysis for your heart. It's much cheaper. For people that are living remotely.
What happens is if a cardiac event happens in your heart, which, like I said, about 40 percent of the population have cardiac events. Some of them turn into something serious. Some don't. The key is that you want to catch these before they turn into something serious because heart disease is really mostly preventable.
We can catch that without the user even knowing that something happened. We generate a report that goes to the (inaudible). We help them set an appointment if needed and so on. So these are the type of ‑‑ I know I probably have talked for too long. So about that. Yes, these are the type of ‑‑ we were working on virtual. It's incredible to see what comes out when you bring people from different ‑‑ like the right set of stakeholders, and I just want to say that it's not just the tech companies. It's not just the hospitals. You know, we bring together other communities and academia. It's really, really ‑‑ we're big on responsible development, responsible development of technologies. It must be an important aspect of interdisciplinary and holistic collaboration as well.
We actually, for example, work with my community that we're developing a solution for, we bring them to be part of the solution. We're working with the First Nation in British Columbia. It's one of the first nations in Canada, indigenous nation. We're building a medical center for them, a main hospital. Not for them. See, I am catching myself. We're actually do it together. They're building it. We're doing it together. They're part of the development. You know, they're part of the say on what does the solution look like? How can we design it together? What's incredible ‑‑ this is the last thing I promise that I'm going to say. What's incredible about this is that once you do this properly, other things come out of this.
So, for example, this indigenous nation, they are building a school on their land, and we're now helping design together their curriculum. We're introducing quantum computing for the kids to be taught and other things. I'll stop here.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Thank you so much. That's a quite unique angle to it. After you gave the statistics about 40 percent of people living globally having ‑‑ I started thinking. Four out of every ten. We all she had get our hearts checked or get that device.
I have now one question because I understand about your experience you created using AI to solve health challenges, your experience with the Canada Research Council. I see how you are able to marry AI research and a lot of things that are in a way very relevant to developed settings and societies. Now you talked about the globalization of your initiative and your network. It's not just Canada.
My question to you, as it relates to countries that are not so advanced or might not be able to afford that level of health care or preventive measure is this: How have your experiences in leading organizations like maybe when deep tech in Canada, for example, and the quantum algorithm institute, for example, influenced your approach to fostering innovative ways of bridging this gap between civilizations that. That's basically it. How are you able to employ your vast experiences in research to create market‑ready technologies that are able to be accessible to even communities that are not able to afford it by further standards?
>> MAY SIKSIK: Thanks, David. These are great points. I'll address them one by one. In terms of what we do want to make sure that we give back to these communities. For example, I'll give an example of the medical center. We've designed part of this system. It's a digital wallet. What we're doing is we're ‑‑ there's a ton of incredible data, and every transaction ‑‑ so we will be partnering with pharmaceutical industry, with financial institutes and so on to incentivize healthy behavior, and we're creating a market ‑‑ what we call a market network for this system where you can be matched with certain specialists, and people who do certain procedures and so on. Every single time there is a transaction, a little bit of money goes back to the nation. Again, also the users are getting incentivized. Insurance companies are ‑‑ they will ‑‑ we're partnering with them to incentivize healthy behavior. Every single time we do a transaction, a little bit goes back to the community and to give back. That's what we're doing. And again, what's incredible about this. By sitting together and co‑creating together by having the communities as part of this, it's just unbelievable all the opportunities that come up to monetize things and to give back to the community because they're part of this. They can tell you, yes, we can ‑‑ this is what we have access to and so on.
Okay, the other thing I wanted to mention, you talked about how do we bring market‑ready? Again, I'm going to go back to trying to work on getting rid of siloed developments, and I want to give an example here. So Triumph is Canada's national protocol accelerator like CIRN in Switzerland. We collaborate strongly with them. I've been working with Triumph for many years now, and Triumph ‑‑ so prior to my work with Triumph, it was difficult. You asked what did you learn from previous organizations? When I worked at the quantum algorithms institute on, there's a quantum group at triumph, and we collaborated together. I remember the board of directors of the Khan item algorithm institute, these are particle physicists. Why are we collaborating with them? This is where it ‑‑ because the quantum algorithm institute was focused on commercializing quantum computing in Canada. People often don't really look into this enough.
Triumph develops algorithms. Yes, they're used for part Cal physics, but they're amazing to be applied in other areas. They can be commercialized. There's a commercialization arm to Triumph, but my board of directors at the time didn't see this. It all worked out at the end, but just having that approach seeing that interdisciplinary approach.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Amazing. Thank you. One thing that has been repetitive in all the submissions has been the concept of collaboration, partnership for the goals. With the little time left, the floor is now open to you to give your amazing responses, to ask your specific questions, and hopefully we will get that done shortly. Please, by show of hands, does anyone want to make contributions or ask questions?
>> Thank you. I wanted to ask the question to the lady ‑‑
(Inaudible).
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: You can just talk loudly. It's totally fine. Otherwise others can't hear.
>> I want to ask a question of you because you mentioned about engaging the stakeholders, the community. How do you track the data? Are you using something like block chain to see how the data is tracked?
>> MAY SIKSIK: So this is a really good question, really good point. Indigenous communities, I don't know if everybody here heard, but data for First Nations in Canada was not dealt with properly a long time ago by the government. It's a big issue, and it was then used quite a lot a while ago. So we have a ‑‑ the government has a reconciliation initiative trying to fix things with the indigenous communities. They've been bit by that, so data privacy is really big. We are using block chain for digital wall. It's block chain based on block chain. We're using this technology to make sure that we are very careful with data privacy.
(Inaudible).
>> I'm asking these questions because I'm a researcher interested to find out whether you are using a specific block chain.
>> MAY SIKSIK: So we have different solutions. So we're agnostic, but right now for this solution we're exploring different. We have a few different solutions, and we're actually seeing which one will work the best. It's funny. This is a good point because they are also involved in this evaluation. Thank you.
>> When you were speaking ‑‑ can you hear me? When you were speaking, I definitely agree with you, David, that as they would say in Sesame Street, the word of the day is collaboration.
We have huge challenges in front of us, but the only way we are going to be able to solve them is if we collaborate with each other. Your question about the solutions to the develop of underprivileged communities, how to approach that? I know this is a technological panel, but I would love to give you an example of one of our members. A company in Norway that manufactures these chambers where they put the preborn babies, immature babies, you know? Incubators. Because in some African countries that is a huge challenge for the surviving of babies that are born ahead of time.
They were sending the machines, but after a while they were not working, and they were so technological developed with all kinds of chips and things that they were really become not helpful for the community. So they put their heads to work, and they said, okay, what kind of technicians do we have in these countries? What kind of technology are they familiarized with? They found out that it was for cars. So they took parts of cars that they were able to fix very fast, and, for example, they took the wiper system of a car and the pump for the water for the windshields and that is the kind of products that ‑‑ and material that they used to develop incubators that can really work all the time, can be fixed inside, and can really help the community. So sometimes even though we have access to the best technology, we need to start lowering our expectancies and really go and think how the local people think to really overcome these challenges and then they will be able to continue developing.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Amazing. Amazing. Dear colleagues, I think we are running out of time, and with a few minutes left ‑‑ about a minute left, I will just like to take the last comments from our speakers who just in 30 seconds say something, and we call this session to a close. Thanks. Start with you.
>> MOHAMMED AL‑SURF: As you said about what we are talking about here, it's all about collaboration, and you can see the diversity of the panel and how we can actually combine our efforts together. It's just a matter of taking it forward and thinking locally, but acting globally. So I think that's one message from my side.
>> I wanted to say that I always find that it's great to have a conversation with people around you, and it's amazing sometimes what comes of random conversations. It's always good to chat to people with whom you work with and different teams and so on. Yeah, so...
>> MARIA FERNANDA GARZA: I really want to thank you for coming to the IGF because this is the portrait of what the future should be for governance. This is a multi‑stakeholder forum where all the voices are heard, and this is how we need to construct the policy for these new technologies and for the future. So thank you.
>> DAVID OKPATUMA: Thank you so much, dear colleagues. Just an announcement. If you are interested in ESG, that would be another interesting session in workshop room one. That will start now and last for about an hour. With that being said, dear colleagues, thank you so much for your attention, for your participation, and for your collaboration. Thank you on behalf of the Digital Governance Authority of Saudi Arabia. It's my pleasure to have served as your Moderator today. Looking forward to future collaborations and actions. Thank you.