The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Okay. So good morning, everyone. We are happy to be here in this very ‑‑ starting and the last day of ‑‑ official day of IGF 2023 with this very relevant conversation about how we can leverage the Freedom Online Coalition at the international organisations for the work and support and the exercise of rights.
So for this conversation, I am Maria Paz Canales. I am the head legal researcher and I have the pleasure to be the moderator. I'll be joined by distinguished panel from governments of Canada, United States, and the Netherlands that hold the chair of Freedom Online Coalition in the previous periods, in the current period and it will be taking over for the following one in the case of the Netherlands.
And also, for distinguished members of the Advisory Network of the Freedom Online Coalition, civil society organisations and also bring their perspective to this very important conversation about how we can discuss more about the opportunities and challenges we foresee to shape norms and advocate for human rights defenders, civil society, journalists and other stakeholders with lateral institutions and processes. So very relevant conversation for all the moving parts that we are confronting in this moment.
Because of that, my opening remark, I want to concentrate in this idea of, like, the interoperability that we usually (?) with more technical concept, but today we are seeing, like, more than ever the need of, like, assuring interoperability, also frameworks and regarding efforts so how we can leverage the experience of collaboration at a multilevel but also with all the experience and richness that come from the multistakeholder engagement, which is the strength of the Freedom Online Coalition.
So, in that sense, it's very important, like, remind that for achieving the truly ‑‑ the true interoperability that we need to have common objectives and the Freedom Online Coalition precisely have champion unification of common goals, common objectives of the like‑minded state that are united in this Coalition. And also have champion, the idea of, like, progressively welcome more diversity in that participation with recently new state joining the Freedom Online Coalition.
One of those very relevant common objectives is the approach to protect and promote human rights that unite all the members of this relevant Coalition and make it through this slogan that many of the human rights advocater fear we pursue it from many years ago, like, make it the same rights online and offline.
And for this, it's not necessarily imperative to establish entirely new regulations. Sometimes we need to take advantage of what already we have developed in many frameworks. For that, consistently, the Advisory Network have been supporting also the work of the (?) in trying to leverage all the advocacy work and experience and the interpretation that come from the national human rights system in order to enhance this collaboration and promote more effective protection of rights.
With that note, I want to give the floor to relevant people in this conversation, the ones that represent, as I mentioned at the beginning, the past experience in achieving the value of this network, the ones that represent the present experience and the one that come with a lot of new plans and hopes and new possibilities continuing this very, very important collaboration. So first, we will welcome Miss Aaryn Zhao, who is the representative from the Canadian Government, to give her a little bit of her thoughts in terms of the experience of the Canadian Government leading the efforts of the FOC.
>> AARYN ZHAO: Great. Thank you, everyone. So, I'll speak a bit about Canada's experiences. So, we were the chair during the 2022 year, and before that, in the lead‑up to the UNESCO recommendation on the ethics of AI, we were the chair of the task force on AI and human rights. And before the negotiations really started, we thought that we had to take a proactive and deliberate approach to having a multistakeholder discussion that would inform all of our engagement in the negotiations.
So, we had started with a briefing from UNESCO to the FOC Paris Diplomatic Network, which we ‑‑ our Mission in UNESCO ‑‑ Mission to UNESCO also leads the Diplomatic Network. The benefits of the FOC is that, even though we're very like‑minded in terms of values and principles, it is fairly cross‑regional with differing levels of capacity and knowledge on these issues. So, that first briefing was really important to get everyone on the same page about what was at stake and the main issues and UNESCO goals for the recommendation.
And then really from there, it was very much an iterative and sometimes messy process. We had regular meetings within the task force involving countries, society and the tech network within the network. And it was really helpful because these issues are necessarily multi‑disciplinary and we're used to that when we're formulating national negotiating positions, having to talk to different departments, civil society, industry. And so, you had to bring together people with policy experience, with multilateral experience, with the technical expertise and very few people who know all three and can try to bring those together. Even in the negotiations themselves, which were unfortunately, all virtual due to COVID, some delegations ‑‑ it was very much a multistakeholder negotiation. Even some delegations represented by professors with expertise in AI and so, you had to do a lot of translating between the different communities. But that's why the FOC was such a valuable place to do that coordination, bringing all those communities together.
And then just maybe some lessons learned. Like I said, to be inclusive, a multistakeholder needs to be a deliberate and proactive decision from the start. It's not going to happen on its own. Plan to ‑‑ plan that it will take more time than you think it will take. The issues are complex. There's always going to be tensions and, as we like to say, if you're not uncomfortable, you're probably not being inclusive enough. And we also all just need to ‑‑ I think it's not ‑‑ as governments, it's not always our natural tendency to want to be consultative, but that's why it needs to be a deliberate decision to step out of normal practises to make that happen. Thanks.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Aaryn. On that note about the value of the multistakeholder engagement and even the value of, like, feeling a little bit uncomfortable and ‑‑ which is the job of the civil society in general in this processes, I would like to bring to the conversation Veronica Ferrari from APC, Association for Progressive Communication, who's a member of that Advisory Network, to comment a little bit about the benefits of this multistakeholder dialogue and what had been the experience of, like, championing these through the work of the Advisory Network in collaboration with the FOC.
>> VERONICA FERRARI: Great. Thanks, Maria Paz, and thanks for the remarks from Canada and also the leadership in incorporating the inclusion agenda and putting that at the centre of the policy, that was continued under the US chairship, and we hope it will be continued in the next chairship.
So, again, thank you for the opportunity to speak today, for the invitation. I'm glad to be here. As Maria Paz was saying, I'm the a member of the Advisory Network. I represent ABC, a civil society organisation, a network of members from all ‑‑ over 40 countries located in mostly the global majority. So we are a network committed to co‑creating a just sustainable (?) by shaping the Internet. So ABC works toward more robust multistakeholder collaboration where those who are affected by these policies particularly marginalcised groups have a voice in shaping policy. A national regional and also international levels. So in the sense ABC sees the FOC as a valuable platform to advance this goal of multistakeholder collaboration.
So, this increases ‑‑ the FOC incorporating the voice of marginalised groups, we think it's a really positive step where engagement with communities who are most affected is required. So there is more to be done in that sense. So, I think I wanted to highlight the role of the task forces and subentities. In addressing a specific focus areas and also translating principles and statements into practical actions, so, for example, in the case of AI, we believe that when discussing norms related to artificial intelligence, emerging technologies from our perspective, from ABC, the focus should be on the implication of the systems for human rights, for social justice, also for sustainable development. So, the discussion should not be only around technology but also about the inequalities that these technologies can create and exacerbate. So for the FOC working on new emerging technologies in AI, it's good to work with a task force to incorporate perspectives of marginalised groups. So the role of the subentities has been key in shaping priorities, also informing discussions on these issues through opportunities. And also serve as a mean to engage other groups that are not necessarily part of the FOC and Advisory Network.
And I wanted to bring an example of which we believe in terms of setting norms that build on what the stakeholder collaboration. I wasn't part of the FOC at that moment but my colleagues from ABC were really involved in this, is the FOC joint statement on the human rights impact of cyber‑security laws, practises and policies from 2020. So that study has recommendation for national cyber‑security practise and international processes and draw on the input of a multistakeholder FOC Working Group on that topic. So that statement underscored the importance of a human‑centric approach to cyber‑security, the need to learn international frameworks when shaping international cyber‑norms and also national policies. So, this leads to my final point. We believe that the FOC could play a key role in coordinating international discussions, for example, on cyber‑security and cyber‑crime because particularly at the UN on some of the processes they are building on language and positions that are already there and exists. There's consensus on that. So that was one of the points that I wanted to mention and I know we are talking about more processes and connections, so I may stop here, but I just wanted to highlight the importance of multistakeholder collaboration, how FOC has proven as a key platform for that and how we can still do better and more in that sense. So, thank you, Maria Paz.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Veronica, for those remark. Now, I'm going to give the floor to Allison Peters who is the representative of the US Government that have hold in this period the chairship of the FOC to also share a little bit more about this engagement the diplomatic efforts and how you have tried to provide for efficacy also to this conversation which is always a challenge when a group is start and it is small, it's easier maybe, but when you need to come away and welcome new members and new realities and new contacts, they are challenging the coordination itself. So share a little bit of the US Government leading that experience during the last chairship of the FOC.
>> ALLISON PETERS: Well, first, good morning, everyone. Thank you so much, Maria. It's really a pleasure on the last day of IGF to be joined by two very close friends, partners in crime, the Government of Canada and the governments of the Netherlands, as well as our friends Veronica from the Advisory Network of this global Coalition focussed on human rights online. The United States has been really just tremendously thrilled to be the chair of this global Coalition this year. We set out at the first summit for democracy to bolster both our engagement and work through the Freedom Online Coalition, but bolster the work of the Coalition as a whole in terms of impacting multilateral processes, multistakeholder processes around the globe focussed on technology‑related issues.
I think we learned a lot of hard lessons. We saw both challenges and successes. I think perhaps the most important lesson learned for us is the need to have very strong political will at the top of our leadership chain as the chair of this coalition. We had a Presidential commitment to chair the coalition. We've had engagement from our Secretary of State. We recently hosted a ministerial level conversation at the UN General Assembly high‑level week. We've been able to bring in more members into the coalition as a result of that strong engagement and political leadership at the top of our chain advancing a rights‑respecting approach to technology‑related issues is central to the Biden Administration's approach on technology policy. And so that has really helped us as the chair, make sure that we are continuing to sort of hold ourselves accountable in getting a lot done this year.
I'm certainly we saw a lot of successes in terms of building the capacity of the Freedom Online Coalition during our chairship. Perhaps most importantly building up our diplomatic networks, both in Geneva and New York and working to expand those in other cities as well in order to coordinate in advance of some really key multilateral processes so we've coordinated through the Freedom Online Coalition in New York around the UN cyber‑crime treaty negotiations, for example, working closely with the Advisory Network to bring in their perspectives in those treaty negotiations. We've coordinated through the Freedom Online Coalition in advance of an emerging technology resolution being considered in the Human Rights Council making sure we're talking through what priorities and perhaps threats to human rights are most critical in terms of addressing in is any such resolution in the Human Rights Council. There's been coordination in UNESCO around the guidance for digital platforms, making sure also that we're bringing in the perspectives of the Advisory Network there in particular as there's been very strong views amongst multistakeholder on that process in particular.
The second piece I think that we've seen in terms of successes is really making sure that we are giving opportunities for members to facilitate coordination, not just in capital cities but also through our embassies in countries around the globe. There perhaps is most critical when we're talking about responses to threats to human rights online, so particular cases of Internet shutdowns or particular cases where we've seen human rights defenders be targeted by digital attacks making sure a that we are strengthening our coordination in those countries directly our diplomats serving in those embassies has been a key success of ours in our chairship this year. And then third I'll just say in terms of a success, I think we have been successful in bringing in new issue sets into the Freedom Online Coalition, continuing to evolve. We had the entire Freedom Online Coalition issue a joint statement in the Human Rights Council most recently looking at the threat of surveillance technologies. We were able to gain a host of additional governments. We're so pleased, I think the number is nearly 60 now that have joined on. So we've taken this issue set. We've coordinated in this Coalition and then we've taken it out to other governments to join us.
Similarly, we issued a set of guiding principles and government use of surveillance technologies. There are, of course, I don't need to tell many of you in this room, a suite of surveillances that are front and centre to journalists, political opposition figures, dissidents, you name it, this is particular threat when we talk about artificial intelligence systems embedded in those surveillance technologies and we have been successful in developing these guiding principles and government use of surveillance tech that really sort of establishes what are rights‑respecting use would look like when it comes to these technologies. We were pleased that the whole FOC joined on to these guiding principles and, then, again, we were able to take that into the summit for democracy condition contacts and gain additional support.
Certainly, though we're not without challenges and rooms for improvement. I think one of the biggest challenges that we have is just linking human rights folks up with cyber‑and digital folks in each and every one of our governments. I'm sure we would all agree. Sometimes we can be siloed and so the need to bring in both of those perspectives when we're making decisions and developing outputs of this Coalition has really been a challenge for us and, I think, every government at this table and in the FOC.
Second challenge, of course, is visibility of the Freedom Online Coalition. There are a lot of Coalitions out there. I'm engaged in a number, as I'm sure both of you are as well, and Veronica from the Advisory Network. And so, making sure that we are keeping the Freedom Online Coalition sort of front and centre and a lot of these policy discussions has been really a place where, I think, we continue to feel like there is room for improvement.
And then last I'll say, we continue to see room for improvement in terms of diversifying our membership, bringing in more countries from the global majority. This is something that has been a critical priority for us. To your point, Maria, not to grow this to too large of a size where coordination just becomes near impossible, but really to grow this with diversity perspectives in mind so we are not just making decisions that impact governments in one region or another but we're making decisions that are holistic of the entire globe. There this continues to be a priority, and we look forward to working with the government of the Netherlands to bring in more members of the global majority into the conversation.
So, I could probably go on with the challenges and areas of improvement, but we wouldn't be able to have achieved the successes that we did without the support of you all at the table and so many in this room in particular. So thank you very much.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Allison. And with that, I think it's the perfect segue to ambassador the new chief of the FOC for the following year precisely with all these relevant learns and experience shared by your colleagues that previously hold the seat of the chairship, what are your views and your perspective in terms of the opportunities and the plans that you bring us the new leadership of this Coalition? Thank you very much for being here.
>> AMBASSADOR: Thank you very much, Maria. And so glad to be invited at this table as a newcomer. It's fascinating to attend this Internet Governance Forum and to meet so many people and all these interesting discussions like we had this morning as well and a special mention on this subject, who is sitting in front of me being responsible for all the work on the Freedom Online Coalition from our side. So thank you for that. And I want to thank Aaryn and Allison for sharing your lessons learned on the Freedom Online Coalition.
Canada has shown us how Freedom Online Coalition policy‑makers can be trained on difficult technical topics like artificial intelligence and how then this knowledge can be used in the diplomatic negotiations. Although written two years before the public launch of generative AI, the FOC joined the statement to hold up. This is due to the fact that Canada organised during the pandemic virtual classes for policy‑makers where they were informed by experts in academia, tech companies and NGOs on AI machine learning. This knowledge based ensured that the FOC had an excellent position to coordinate this position around a UNESCO negotiations on AI and ethics.
The US has done magnificent work for energyising FOC, and Allison mentioned a number of issues it had been brought on the table, like you've brought FOC to the summit for democracy and on the line at the highest level that digital human rights is one of the biggest challenges of our time.
Also, the US has done some important housekeeping on the Coalition. With a new and updated terms of reference, the Coalition is ready for the next ten years. Although this might not be the most sexy subject from a PR perspective, it is most difficult for diplomatic network getting everyone to agree on these changes was no small fete. So thank you very much for doing this important work. And it makes our work easier again. Thank you.
It's up to us to continue this important lines of work and that in a key year for digital governance.
The GDC as we all have been seeing in the last few days, will be the internet governance event for next year. Followed quickly by the (?) past 20. The next 18 months will be pivotal for the future of the Internet and to make sure that we will be the Internet we want.
The Netherlands aims to keep the Internet multistakeholder organised with a strong focus on human rights as a crosscutting theme. For us, the ofcy will be a key Coalition to coordinate our in this important fora for three good reasons. First, ofcy has proven to be a central force in protecting the multistakeholder model of the Internet. And secondly, and possibly more important, the ofic I is a global inter‑regional Coalition with countries from all continents. As we have heard in the last few days, digital equality in expending connectivity are still a challenge not sufficiently addressed by the past IGFs. If we want to move forward on Internet and AI governance, we must include a global majority perspective. We will, therefore, seek to broaden FOC's membership, I would say further expand because you have done excellent work already on that topic, but especially with like‑minded country from the global majority and have them engaged actively in the discussions.
Having the FOC Presidency we want to make sure that the FOC's position in the GDC negotiations is widely supported and realistic. And thirdly, with the FOC, we have a long history of engaging with all the stakeholders. They are involved through the FOC Advisory Network and provide us governance with solicited and unsolicited advice on this important governance aspects.
These elements of the FOC are history, our expertise, our diverse membership, and multistakeholder structure make the FOC an excellent coalition to coordinate our positions on the important themes such as Internet governance and AI, but also other related topics such as how to implement the recently concluded declaration on the information integrity, also on behalf of Canada, I would like to thank all countries who have supported this important declaration. Thank you.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, ambassador. And I think that we ‑‑ that final remark in terms of the value of the multistakeholder engagement for the technology (?) which would like to bring also someone from the Advisory Network that will join us online for making also more inclusive this conversation, so we have Boye Adegoke from paradigm initiative that will provide some additional remarks and talks about how we can think about the multistakeholder millennial in terms of the trend that today are for this moil and the switch to multilateralism and how the value of this multistakeholder support so strongly as we have heard about the FOC by the past, by the present and by the future will be enhanced and could be an opportunity to continue to advocating in the Mission in ensuring human rights‑based approach in all the technologies coordinatenites. So Bouye, can you hear us and can you bring your perspective? Thank you
>> BOYE ADEGOKE: Thank you very much. I hope I'm audible and you can hear me. Thank you very much for opportunity for me to contribute to this conversation and thanks to the FOC opportunity for putting together this session and for asking me to share perspective. I think it has been said, gave recognition to Netherlands for chairmanship and to the United States Government for the amazing work that they've done in the past year. It has been said during this conversation (?) already been mentioned so can make a point. I think the point about inclusivity has been stressed and that of multistakeholder in the term of FOC to the table but I also want to say one of the importance of the FOC and one of the benefits the globe can benefit from leveraging what the FOC has done in the past year is the FOC is also a platform (?) so even with stakeholder groups, you find different people coming from with (?). For example, I'm a member of the Advisory Network. I represent an organisation, but I would see, tell you for free, that even while I represent an organisation, even as an organisation, we also represent a network of a number of civil society organisation focussing on different kinds of expertise, the design space across the globe.
So I think this is also one of the benefits of ‑‑ or one of the value that the FOC can offer some of these global processes in terms of setting global norms and all of that.
But I also think the FOC accountability. I think that the FOC also has a very good level of accountability in terms of how (?) the FOC itself as a coalition in terms of how we engage in developing a statement, in developing comments on many processes the FOC have been engaging. And I think this is very grateful for in terms of setting very global norms in terms of creating the FOC system. It's kind of prevent a business of power and ensure global norms are implemented effectively.
I also this I that one of the benefit I see within this context is legitimacy, a lot of statement the FOC have put out have gone through a lot of rigorous process, involving advice Advisory Network member and (?) themself so at the end of the day we have a lot of times we have legitimate outputs and I think that this principle can also mainstream. So the global norm are set in terms of getting that legitimacy from various and diverse group of stakeholder.
So, if you (?) I think that kind of very, very relevant valuable in terms of how the FOC (?) but I think (?) can benefit from.
Very quickly, before I keep quiet, I would also like to say it's very important that I see that we have to be very careful in terms of our statement of digital policy or the digital norms that are being set in the ‑‑ in this age and time to avoid the mistakes of the past. (?) to absolutely re‑‑ result to multilateralism. I just came back from the ad hoc session on the (?) the UN is currently working on and I see that (?) a lot of times to overly resort to multilateralism by not giving civil society voices is, an opportunity to make contribution. There are sessions I was in the room so I see this in praccom. I think this is something, he have to be careful and I think that's where FOC can come in again. Whether we like it or not, we (inaudible) multilateralism there is always inequal dynamics. We have (?) disportionit influence personally leading to norms that (?) interest. Similar (?) may have very limited ability to shape global (?) and I think the FOC provides some sort of platform whereby this (?) very large (?).
I also mentioned accountability the other time but I also want to mention what I also call the problem obvfragmentation, complexity. Because of our time, agreements (?) sometimes contract (?) can be challenging to navigate and implement.
So I also think that the FOC can really, really (?) in terms of helping to mitigate some of these challenges with multilateralism and also making sure that the mistakes of (?) can just come together and develop norms and develop rules to guide behaviours in the international context. It can be very problematic, and the FOC in that instance, I think, is also a very great platform that can help in terms of mitigating those type of challenges because, as a member of the FOC, I have seen how many of the processes we've been involved in many of the, you know, many involvement of the FOC's processes and have benefited from (?) of the different members of the FOC, inputs from diverse group, from representation of diverse communities, the FOC embodies.
So I think this is very important, and I think that it's just great opportunity for the world to benefit or for the world to leverage what has been done by the FOC, and I also see the FOC as an evolving platform that continues to improve, that continues to expand. So, it's ‑‑ at this point, I'll just put a stop to it. Thank you very much.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Boye Adegokez for being part of this conversation today. And I think with your remarks, we is have also a good segue in opening a little bit more also a conversation to the ones in the table, but also in the room and UN participants online if there's someone that wants to jump in in the conversation, explaining a little bit more, ambassador remind us the important of the housekeeping. We have heard from each one of the chairships, the past, the current and the future about how important it's, like, to address the issue of coordination because even when we can agree in terms of the values and be like‑minded in terms of the goal of promotional protection of human rights related to technologies, this need an operational layer, and that's the challenge that is up to the coalition to figure out every year for continue developing the great work they've been doing.
So in that sense, in a more operative way, how we can think about what are the key subject matters or the processes that you identify as the one that will need be prioritised in the following year for the improvement of diplomatic network, coordination, ahead of any relevant negotiation of any of identified processes? And in that same line, how can the FOC Leyritz previous work and upcoming work to enhance the ability that processes have a meaningful inclusive approach of majority world voices and this multistakeholdering nature that we have discussed at the essence of really have a process that can be fully aligned with the best protection of human rights.
So, I invite anyone around the table to react, but also from the audience. You want ‑‑ yeah.
>> ALLISON PETERS: Well, I think this is kind of the heart of this discussion today we've had several days now of IGF, and I think all of the processes that probably every single one of us would list have been on the agenda for IGF sessions this week. So we do have right now an ad hoc committee that is going between Vienna and New York negotiating a UN cyber‑crime treaty. This is critical that we have a tightly scoped criminal instrument that protects a rights‑respecting approach of the investigation of cyber‑crimes, and they're having the Freedom Online Coalition be a key voice and mechanism in which we can coordinate our perspectives amongst like‑minded partners is going to be really critical. We've heard a lot of discussion about the global digital compact process. We have also, of course, looked ahead to ISIS + 20 as one of the central processes where Internet governance issues are going to be on the agenda. And then we have other processes that have been discussed, things like the high‑level Advisory Board on artificial intelligence.
I think the key to each and every one of these processes is it's going to be Mission critical, the most important thing this Coalition does to make sure we are focussed on protecting human rights online, and that means protecting the existing human rights assurance that we have that guide all of our work in the UN system, in multilateral institutions and not taking us backwards. So that's first and foremost, not undermining the existing frameworks that we have.
Second, I think is going to be Mission critical that we're focussed on protecting marginalised and vulnerable groups. There continues to be efforts in multilateral fora around the globe to undermine protections for women and girls in all their diversity, undermine protections for LGBTQ+ individuals, undermine protections for other marginalised and vulnerable groups, and we can use this coalition to make sure that we are continuing at every turn to make sure that we are putting those groups at the heart of the human rights agenda and that we are also making sure that we are consulting with those stakeholders to make sure that we're representing their perspectives.
Third, we heard a lot of discussion ‑‑ and I think Boye also talked a lot about this and the need to make sure we're protecting the multistakeholder model. We have processes in the United Nations that, in some ways, are inherently governmental, because the United Nations is a composition of Member States, but it is very critical that we are protecting efforts to ensure that multistakeholders can engage, and that means getting the modalities right for a number of knows processes so multistakeholders are able to not just be there at the table but actually meaningfully engage, and I've heard a lot of discussion here this week about that as well.
And then last, I'll just say, I it's going to be really critical that we are evolving as a coalition, that we are not just focussed on sort of the traditional deletes of freedoms that we have been looking to protect since this coalition was founded over a decade ago, but that we are putting on the table new threats to human rights online. So, I spoke about some of our efforts on surveillance technologies, certainly when we look to issue issues around artificial intelligence governance, both the opportunities and threats that we see there to human rights. And so, continuing to make sure that we are really evolving as a coalition and putting the most critical priorities on the table in these processes is going to be really important, and we can't do that without the Advisory Network and those in this room and beyond here at IGF to make sure that they're holding us accountable to actually doing so.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Allison. I don't know if any of the other representative want to react and also Veronica, I think that maybe it will be very relevant to hear from you about particularly this challenge of, like, be truly inclusive and have really effective way to engage this marginalised community that it's a challenge. It's not easy, like. We know as civil society organisation that we work, we are not even ‑‑ we are representatives in so many cases of this marginalised communities' interests and perspective, but truly inclusive means to bring the affected people to the conversation, and that itself a challenge. So, Veronica, your take on that.
>> VERONICA FERRARI: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Maria Paz. I was listening to Allison. I just wanted to say, in terms of priorities, cyber‑crime treato negotiate ‑‑ treaty negotiations, cyber‑security processes like the open‑ended Working Group, we are seeing language on human rights being weakened in the negotiation so that would Guy a good space ‑‑ would be a good space for collaboration. We've been hearing during these days how the next years are critical for internet governance. So as Allison was saying, WISIS20 is a key. One of the main outcomes as a symbol for multistakeholder model and things that we need to protect as a community.
So, another key processes is the GOC. We had (?) coordination around the GDC and it was raised the need for multistakeholder and civil society participation in the GDC negotiations, and I ‑‑ we also (?) key role in facilitating that.
Again, there are too many forums and initiatives to follow, so connections and more ‑‑ a bit more coordination and knowing a bit more what's happening in all the ‑‑ these coalitions and spaces so I'm ‑‑ I was thinking about the FOC but alsotec democracy and law partnership, how we can coordinate around these efforts since a lot of organisations follow in these same processes. And I wanted to raise a point connected with meaningful inclusive approach and the idea of majority voices being heard and the prospectives being ‑‑ perspectives being taken into account in the conversations. So I also heard this week the need for inclusion thinking at the regional level. So multistakeholder is not only about different stakeholders but also different regions being represented. So, I remember, like ‑‑ and we discussed that a lot, like, kind of the chairship regional organisations and that's a good experience that it could be good also to see that in the FOC and in different processes. And I wanted to take the opportunity also to raise one main obstacle for ‑‑ in meaningful inclusivity and presence of global majority voices which is the B‑SUS, so a lot of stuff from ABC and even from our members come to Jap ‑‑ couldn't come to Japan. We experience the same with negotiation of the UN in New York and in Europe too. This is not like an isolated thing. We see this as of course, a problem of the systemic issue but it's important to address that when we talk about inclusivity and majority global voices in this conversation, how that's ‑‑ and how to think alternatives but also how to address this problem. Those were some of the points I wanted to raise. Thank you.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much, Veronica. And I invite you, anyone else want to jump in this question and also bring new questions to the conversation. Ambassador.
>> AMBASSADOR: Thank you. What Allison said was relevant that the agenda must be evolving and on the agenda setting is not only the presidents who is responsible for it. That's indeed to discuss it with all involved, not only the Member States in the Coalition but, indeed, the Advisory Board as well.
On the human rights, I would like to stress that it's important also for us governments at home to coordinate with other human rights departments because human rights is ‑‑ the digital threat to human rights is happening also in the real world and we may have to be sure that it's connected in our offices as well that we don't have a separate discussion. So please involve all your colleagues who are addressing this issue on human rights.
And on the inclusivity, that's actually a topic which is widely discussed also in our Ministry, the reduction in civic space. And I think that's maybe also should be discuss ‑‑ we can ‑‑ I mean, we talk about meaningful inclusivity, etc., but it's a wider problem that in many countries, there's a reduction in civic space in the possibility of NGOs to work. They're being kicked out, etc. So that's also a serious threat. We can work on inclusivity in the coalition but we have maybe also to address this reduction in civic space also online. Thank you.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much. I don't know if anyone want to take the floor from the audience for commenting or bringing new issues. If I may also, a comment from my side, I think it's very relevant in that inclusivity also that something that you mentioned in your intervention, Allison, related to the coordination of different bodies inside the government, as you were mentioning, in the case of, like, human rights protection in different forms but also different level of expeties because for inclusivity also we need to create capacity and one key role that the coalition that is coordinated and created to FOC is, like, to bring more information about where are the right places to have those right coordination, because sometime for civil society, it's difficult to figure out what is the most appropriate Lowcock tour for having a ‑‑ for having the conversation in facilitating that coordination internally in their own governments, across government, is related to facilitate the information for the more effective action of the advocacy of the civil society in this issue.
So, really interesting point on that. I don't know if anyone else want to add something on this line or maybe Aaryn, do you want to jump in?
>> AARYN ZHAO: Sure. So, the only other thing I wanted to mention is, even for Canada, it's hard to keep track of all the different digital and tech initiatives. These used to be mainly technical issues with some political implications, and now they've become political issues that happen to be facilitated through tech. And I think, if we want greater participation from both global majority countries and civil society, we need to be much more specific about what we want from them, the kind of engagement we want from them and also to bring something of value to them, so whether that's greater capacity building, better understanding of, I mean, how does New York UN work? I don't think anyone really knows. And also the technical expertise.
So I think it's not just about what we want, but it needs to be much more of a two‑way conversation between those we're trying to engage and what our goals are.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Important point, so how to bring people in the process but in something that is valuable for everyone around the table. So, we have one comment or question from the audience. Please go ahead. Introduce yourself and ‑‑
>> Sure. Hi, Nikki. I'm from the US Department of State, work on the FOC. I have both a question and a comment kind of together. We spent a lot of time in our chairship thinking about how to include various voices in the decision‑making process for the priorities that we had in our chairship. And as our deputy and Secretary Allison Peters noted, you know, there is a challenge for how you can bring these voices together, particularly within the global majority because of the here sheer amount of forums and processes that are happening that our governments are all engaged in.
So, I guess I don't want to put you on the spot, ambassador, but some ‑‑ I am curious if you've thought a little bit about how you want to maybe narrow your focus during your chairship your next year and, in that, how you're hoping or planning to engage in some of the already existing global majority voices that are within the coalition to bring them into these processes and these conversations. And then ‑‑ not to put my own leadership on the spot but also the Canadian Government, what advice may you have for the Dutch Government in terms of how to engage these other voices? Of course, we spend a lot of time thinking about this this year and as it was noted, the Canadian Government did consultations with every region, so maybe if there they're interested in maybe a little bit of a back‑and‑forth there if you all would indulge me in the last few minutes, because it is really important that we bolster the existing voices that we have in the coalition or else why would someone join?
>> AMBASSADOR: I would like first to listen to others because like I mentioned, I'm here to learn, and I can say very strong things, but without the experience within the coalition.
(Off microphone).
(Laughter).
>> ALLISON PETERS: I'm happy to start and turn it over to my colleague from the Government of Canada. I mean, this is the ‑‑ the heart of the challenge, right, in terms of expanding the tent, not expanding too large where we can't get anything done, making sure that we are expanding the diversity of the Advisory Network. It would be near impossible to bring in every single voice into the Advisory Network, so getting that right as well is kind of a key challenge that we have.
I don't think hope is lost. I think some of it, first and foremost, in terms of engaging global majority governments, we have seen successes in bringing additional governments into the fold. Some are not full members yet, but maybe joining ‑‑ may be joining but we have already been in very intensive dialogues with them about their priorities as it relates to technology and human rights.
So, there, I think we learned a good lesson, which is bringing them into the discussions with other FOC members as partners, as equal footing. So our event at the UN General Assembly recently with the Secretary of State, we invited non‑FOC members, some key countries that have important perspectives to bring into the fold as it relates to technology policy, some which are strong democracies, strong records on human rights but maybe have not engaged with the FOC previously, and so bringing them to the table to add their voices and perspectives has been really important to just get them interested in the work in the FOC, familiar ‑‑ familiarise them with the FOC's work.
And then following that up with capital level engagement. So, as you know well, Nikki, we have really enlisted the support of our ambassadors and our diplomatic core in these key countries to continue the dialogue. It can't just be a one‑off ministerial event in the UN and then we say thanks so much, please join us. It really needs to be a constant dialogue.
Then I would just say a recognition that resources are scarce, I mean in every government, but some governments have more resources than others. And so, continuing to work with those governments that may feel like they don't have the resources to engage to both support them and help them perhaps, have those resources, but also making the case of what's in it for them, like, what are you going to get out of this if you prioritise this over something else? I mean, we heard a lot about the proliferation of different processes here.
Second, I would just say in relation to not just governments but expanding the work that we're doing with civil society, the Advisory Network is a key source of support to us, but it's certainly, and I'm sure you would agree, it shouldn't be the only source of support. Right? So for example, the Freedom Online Coalition, our close friends and partners in the US Government, USAID. Not only did we consult the Advisory Network, our multistakeholder component and the Freedom Online Coalition but we went way beyond that in terms of consulting with civil society in key countries, building out broader networks of stakeholder voices from global majority countries in particular, and I think that was another example of how we can do this starting with the Advisory Network and then sort of building out from there.
I would say there, also, leveraging, the fact that we are 38 governments, and we all have our own networks and so it shouldn't just be the chair's networks in different countries that we're consulting, but coming to the Government of Canada or coming to the Netherlands and saying, you know, who do you know that we should talk to in these countries is really important. But this is, you know, the heart of the question that we've been asking all year, and I am sure for the Canadian Government, the heart of the question they were asking themselves as well as chair.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you so much. Final thoughts on that from the ambassador, from the Government of Canada. We have three minutes, yeah.
(Laughter).
>> AARYN ZHAO: Okay. I'll try to be quick and I'll talk about a couple of examples. So, during last year's UNGA high‑level week, we organised an event between Freedom Online Coalition, international IDEA and media freedom Coalition. I think bring being more creative with our multistakeholder and multilateralism would also help with the capacity issue of different countries having to join four or five different coalitions outside of the UN processes.
And also when we recently developed the global declaration on information integrity, we used both international IDEA and Freedom Online Coalition to try to get agreement among democratic and rights‑respecting countries on what that would look like. So different ways of trying to be creative with how we approach these things to make things easier for everyone.
>> AMBASSADOR: Just I think ‑‑ what I just realised is that the FOC's not the IGF where there's lots of like‑mindedness but there's no text to be negotiated or whatever, and you hear some countries being very like‑minded with us on subject of human rights and you wonder, okay, but what's happening at your home?
So, with this different, we truly want to be like‑minded and at the same time, we don't want to copy to be the UN in the sense that you want to include all countries and have impossible negotiations there. You want to have a meaningful exchange with each other that we are ‑‑ be able to take positions in the end to ‑‑ can convince the broad majority, the global majority and that we indeed are effective in our work. And that's a balance we have to find, also enlarging the group. And that's a challenge because maybe you want to have some countries but at the same time can be more complex, so, indeed, it's a delicate balance we have to find with each other and to make sure that of FOC will stay effective in the coming years. Thank you.
>> MARIA PAZ CANALES: Thank you very much. Thank you, all the speaker, for being part of this relevant conversation today. I think we have captured relevant learnings and particularly reinforced that there are clarity in the main values that stick together this coalition, the promotion and protection of human rights, the commitment with inclusive and meaningful stakeholder engagement, and the need of effective coordination and be creative and continue expanding and deepening the action that already have been developed in terms of, like, all the interoperabilities that I was mentioning at the beginning of the conversation, inside different coordinates between different governments that are coming and enlarging the Coalition with the challenges that ambassador just pointed out of being more diverse, being mindful and accommodate different contexts but without sacrificing the basic Valkus. So, on that note, thank you very much for being part of this conversation. And have a good final day.
(Applause)