The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
***
>> Let's take our seats.
Hello. Who is happy to be here?
(room cheering)
>> Hey! To the most organised what? To the most organised what? The most organised what? Civil Society Community; right? Okay. Come closer. Closer. Closer. Closer. There's space here.
Yes! I was lonely. Okay. Say hello to your neighbour. Can you hear me? Okay. Say hello to the person next to you. How are they doing? Learn a new language, if you can. Okay. Welcome. My name is Ashanut. I'll be your moderator for this session.
(cheers and applause)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Wonderful. Fantastic to have you. We have new faces. Smiles. This session is about the digital what?
>> ID.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: ID and we're called a coalition of ‑‑ a revolution of ‑‑ okay. Welcome. So this session is really an opportunity for the digital IDs and human rights community to tell you a little bit about what they are doing, to hear from me about what they do, and hopefully you can join the fantastic community revolution coalition togetherness. Yeah? Okay. Excellent. So this digital ID community is global. Yeah? We know what global means. Global means ‑‑ global. Huh? What? Global means ‑‑ balloon. (Laughter)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: So we've got people from all over the world represented in the coalition, yeah. We have people from South America. Where are you? We have people from North America. Can we hear it? Uh‑huh. Yeah again, again. Whoo! We have people from Europe in the coalition. Where are you? We've got people from Asia. Asia. That turns out very he he he he he. Asia, can we hear you? Yeah. Okay. We have people from ‑‑ do we have Australia?
>> Yes.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. People from Middle East. Where are you? Okay. Fantastic. Okay. On the agenda. The slide. On the agenda we will start with really a brief overview. We'll have different members tell you about the incredible stuff that this community has been doing. They will tell you a little bit about the journey. It's been about a year since the last idea presented. But we've come such a long way, you know. They've got structure, huh? They have regular communication. They have focus. They have schematic areas. You are going to wait to hear the rest. Okay. You'll hear about that and some of the activities that they are doing. Then we'll also really would like to hear from the rest of you. We'll hear about what are some of the digital ID challenges that you are dealing with? Let's start with a brief overview background. Let's give it up for Kaitlyn! All right. Here you go.
>> Hi, everyone. I'm Kaitlyn Choffey. I have the excellent task of following our moderator, Ashanut. I promise I won't match her energy. I want to talk about why we want to invite more of you in the great work that we're doing in advancing digital ID and human rights. Ashanut has told you about who is in the room, we're a global coalition. We are a Civil Society organisations, we are researchers, activist, and some of us are unfortunately lawyers as well. We're diverse in our geography and we're also diverse in the size of organisations that we represent. We have small community, grassroots organisations, all the way up to large multi‑national NGOs and people from universities. We really run the gamut when it comes to human rights organisation and human rights actors. Also diverse in the reasons that we're interested in digital ID. People are approaching it from many different perspectives and viewpoints. We're diverse as well in the approach to how we come to the work. Some of us are researchers and engaged in advocacy. Some of us do lobbying, strategic litigation, we bring a lot of tools to the table when it comes to advancing human rights. Really the reason that we came together is because we have shared concerns about the types of digital ID systems that we're seeing the way digital identity is being formed. If you look at the timeline which is the slide that's on the screen right now, you can see that in the beginning we were very reactive. So we saw opportunities to come together for consultations to do joint research projects to write thing like open letters that shared some of our concerns. But we were really reacting to opportunities that we saw. And over the past few year, I think, we've become a much more proactive community. We have become more cohesive. We have structure now which is very exciting for all of us. Also we are trying to be much more forward looking to identify opportunities before they come, so that we are much more prepared to meet them, develop shared resources, and also leverage the strengths of our community to build more inclusive and human rights focused outcomes. It is very special for us to be here today at IGF in the first public session to share the work of our coalition. It is actually IGF last year that the coalition really began to take on a formal shape. That's when we launched our initial volunteer group to start establishing some structure and started to bring what was at the time a very loose coalition of civil society organisations together into something that's much, much, much more organised today. And over the last year we are in the kind of piloting phase and building phase. We've accomplished quite a lot. We've agreed on the shared vision for the coalition. We're a powerful coalition that aims to move forward to provide solidarity and support and engage in collective action. We have a beautiful one pager that's on the table here. I'm sure it will be shared with some of the folks online as well. Talking about some of the shared vision. We also established a structure which will be the next slide that you'll see here. And at the top of this structure, the thing that's most important to us is our community membership. All of the CSOs and activist. That's our strength. That's what we build all of our work on. And to bring some shape and structure to that, we have a coordinating group that's responsible for setting meetings, developing visions to share with the group, setting up things like sharing sessions as well. We have a specific work stream on sharing and learning. We've, for instance, shared information about strategic litigation that's happening in Uganda for the rest of the coalition to learn and hear about current developments. We have a lot of other opportunities planned where information and resources will be shared with members of the coalition. We also have a work stream on communications and improving the way that we share and communicate with one another and also with the outside world. Perhaps most importantly we also last meeting we had together identified two priorities for collective action. One is on multi‑literal engagement on bringing the concerns and information and the expertise of the members into multilateral spaces and international organisations. We also have a piece of collective action on national level advocacy. I have wonderful colleagues who are going to share more about the work. Without further ado, over now to talk about some of the needs mapping that we've done.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: People, is that how you clap? Is that how you clap? Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Thank you, Kaitlyn. Yes. Doesn't that sound exciting? Yeah. What did you like about what Kaitlyn said? Anything that struck accord? I hope you are paying attention. Should we ask her to get back again? You like the word community. Uh‑huh. What else did we like from Kaitlyn's presentation? Kaitlyn's presentation. Talk to me. Please. Don't be like on Zoom where you hide behind the screens. What did we like about Kaitlyn? What else did Kaitlyn say that we liked? I'm sorry?
(off microphone)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Proactive. Okay. Excellent. Uh‑huh. You had another point. Any other thing? That's to doubt for us. Okay. All right. So let's listen to Nina.
>> I don't know if everyone here was in Costa Rica. Some of us. Yes. But what we did there we did exercise. It is the mapping of the needs and capabilities. We tried to do is actually it's been a show where we can influence and share knowledge between our members and where it can build the capacity and where you need to view the capacity and that's something that they are going to tell just after me. And we wanted to see how it can find the areas of the coalition members can support each other. We did one sheet just with the capabilities and another sheet just for the needs. As for the members, we're going to populate the cells. Which kind of governance influenced the matters that utilised the organisation. Which human rights and social fields build the expertise on it. Give them the examples. I think we can show the next one. What we came with all of the answers is what we have with the capabilities map. What are our strengths, what each organisation can support, like the big ones. Here we can see, for example, where some of our members comment. One of the members have 12 affiliated actors. They are very strong in research fields like discrimination, economic and social rights, privacy and data protection, all of the members are experts. They are from law making to enforcement and compliance. They have experts start telling how to reach the community and how to actually raise awareness and how to stop. This is our strong suit. This is how we can support each other. But also, we see the biggest needs. Where we should focus the capacity building and workshops being experts actually to help us to capacity build for the needs. Here see what the member want to learn more about it. For instance, learn about comparative examples. Some of them want more focus on the collective actions and surveillance for the access the information. And this also speaks from multilaterally engagement and also the natural project that I'm going to ask who wants to speak and how we share knowledge on the big fields that you focus on this year.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
(Applause)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Thank you very much, Janine. As you can see, the community is very deliberate and intentional to make sure members learn from each other and understand where there are gaps and opportunities and use that to create opportunities. Not just regionally, not just nationally, but ‑‑ but ‑‑ all over the world. Can you imagine being part of that? Exciting, yeah? Okay.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. We're now going to listen to one of the initiatives that the community is working on. There are two groups. One looking at national level interventions and the other one looking at multilaterally engagement. Let's give it up for Juan.
>> JUAN DE BRIGARD: Thank you. Thank you.
It is hard to fight against jet lag and keeping such high energy. I mean I'm not going to be able to deliver as good. Yeah. I'm not going to try to match it, yeah. That's right.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Should we try to give you energy? Should we try? We should try to give you energy? Let's give him energy. Shall we give him energy? You see we are compassionate and kind. Imagine we're compassionate, we're kind, we support each other. Yeah. Shall we clap? Clap. Energy. Energy. Energy. Energy. Energy.
>> JUAN DE BRIGARD: Okay.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Yeah.
>> JUAN DE BRIGARD: I'm feeling very capable now. So yeah, we have two initiatives that are working groups aimed at solving particular problems that we think we can solve for in the coalition. One of them is the national legislation mapping group. This stems from the rights meeting in which we agreed on forming the two groups. This one what it is doing is it is mapping the sites on the development of ID systems in different countries. One of the reasons that we think this is an important task is because the issuing and the implementation of national ID programmes is very different parts of the world. We try to compare those different systems in different places to understand how they are working and to use that knowledge to our advantage in terms of advocacy. So this was a prioritization. We use it to advocate and we're not a coalition that's focused only on research or on academic work. Although we're very academically capable as well. We do think that's a requirement to build better arguments. We're aiming the effort towards something which allows us to move forward our advocacy efforts. And then the ‑‑ maybe one of the stronger points of this exercise as a whole was collectively developed as well. It is very flexible. But every member of the working group has pitched in with ideas and with ways of making that methodology very strong. I think it is one of the strengths of the group as a whole. So the methodology has that advantage and the other one is that it is easy for newcomers to adopt to it. This is, of course, an invitation for all of you to come join us. But we develop it so that any country or any researcher can come in at any point and bring their specific situation to the table in a manner that allows us to compare the different situations all around the world. So, yeah, I think we can show the idea of how we're going to ‑‑ yeah. First the categories that we're mapping. For now it is these five. As I mentioned we have a methodology on how we're getting the information in order to make it easy to compare. And this is very much still open to discussion. If we see that we need to develop more or newer categories, we can do that. And then the ‑‑ what we were aiming for with the results is something at least for the first part that looks like the next slide.
Yeah. Something of this sort. We're trying to develop something that can be hosted in each organisation's web site so it doesn't require people to navigate to another web site in item. But it can be ‑‑ I mean it is the same in many different places. We're trying to for now just have the more narrative version of it display. But this is going to be the building, the stepping stone for probably a more quantitative approach towards ID in the future. That depends on what we are doing. As you can see, I mean, some countries are already beginning to be blue. But on this side of the map we still lack some of your help. If you are willing to join, that would be great. Yeah. I think that's it for the group for now. I guess we can take questions on the Q & A. Next up, Marianne.
(Applause)
>> MARIANNE DIAZ HERNANDEZ: I have a lot of energy. I have all of the energy. I have all of the energy that you guys do not have. I stole it. Hi. Marianne from Access Now. I'm the campaign leader for YID which is leading for identity. I was supposed to talk to you. I don't have photographs. I only have this one slide. I need to have a lot of energy to counteract it. This is basically what the working group has been working on for the past year. We have been working a lot. Meeting constantly. So many meetings. This is not trying to deter you from joining. You can join the meetings as you wish and as you can. You do not have to be present weekly. I mean ‑‑ no. We have biweekly and the working group meetings. I'm saying we have worked a lot. It is good. This is basically our effort to build expertise. That's across the national context and across the national and global which are all different things. Engaging with the forums in the way that's more strategic and coordinated. We have been doing that. All of us. But separately so far. Basically the members of the coordination have the time and information and insights so they can engage in processes at the international level. But also to be able to understand which tools and which activities and which learning experiences can be developed that integrate the different needs across the globe. We work for our members to engage with different processes, such as the U.N. GIA high level a week. We have all different types of organisations and understand how to work and we have the knowledge that each of us have acquired throughout all of the activities. That also means that we're representing trainings on technology of the science and standards and also on how to engage in the forum. Because for each organisation we all have different levels of expertise. There's only an approach for how to engage and where to engage. The coalition has been found in providing funding for the presence of more member on forums like this one. So a lot of the people who came to the idea to the previous idea rights come as well for the meeting. Where the travel was funded by them. Also the campaign ‑‑ ha‑ha. You knew this was coming. The ID campaign is launching today. Hooray for that. We have been working on that for an entire year with the community which was a community effort that many of you were part of at the last rights con providing feedback in the zero draft of this. This is a tool kit that I don't know if we have a couple of them still there. But now we have a web site. Everyone can see it on the web site. The tool kit aims to help data right activist working on the systems to navigate the complexities of the topic in an easier way and to provide them with language that might help them get started in campaigning and mobilizing around the systems. This is basically a start of the framework to help us think about systems. It came from a community effort to understand what the global needs were across different regions. That's all from me. Thank you.
(Applause)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Excellent. You see. You even have cards and tools. So many things, yeah? Okay. So we've heard from the different presentations. What I would just like to give you is three minutes with a person next to you. Or three of you. Do you have any questions about the community about the coalition? Is there anything that intrigues you? Yeah. I give you three minutes. Three minutes. Just talk to the person next to you. Not to your phone. The phone is not a person. A laptop is not a person. A person is an actual human being. Yes. Talk to the person next to you.
Please talk to each other. I beg. I beg. Talk to each other.
(small group conversation)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: People. Please put your phone down. Talk to the person next to you. That phone is with you.
(small group conversations)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. I hope you are still talking about digital IDs. Okay. Can I have your attention back? No? Can I have your attention? Can I have your attention please? Yes. Okay. What questions do we have? What questions do we have? What questions do we have? There are no questions. I was hoping at least ‑‑ no questions for the community? It was clear. It was perfect. Okay.
Okay. Let's listen.
>> Hello, everybody. I'm Coribar. I work for the parliament. I work currently in the legislation to make ID for all of Europe. My question would be for everybody here who wants to answer. How ‑‑ we know the digital identity now is going to be more and more provide by different countries. How the co‑existing with the initiatives with the national solutions is to cohabitate and the purpose of one another? How is the relationship? Thank you.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Good thing I'm a moderator. Someone from the community will answer that. Do we have any other questions? We take two or three. Any other question for the community? Yes.
Oh, yeah.
>> Okay. So we are just curious about the impressive wake. We wanted to know how many organises in the coalition so far? Yeah.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: How many? We have so many. Can you count? Someone start counting, okay.
>> I'm Kamilla from Brazil. My question is how can we enter the coalition?
>> ASHANUT OKILE: You have to go through me, number one. (Laughter)
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Any others?
>> Two questions. How much does it cost to join? And why don't you have a better name and acronym?
>> ASHANUT OKILE: A better name and acronym as compared to? As compared to?
>> We're taking suggestions.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. That's another question. Another one?
>> I'm Allen from Brazil. I would like to hear how they are influencing the international organisations for the ID? Thank you.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Do we have someone for each of the questions? Can we take any other? Are we ready? Two more? Two more points. Are we okay to answer? Okay. No. Okay.
>> Yeah. I'm Adam from the Dominican Republic. I wanted to know if you are planning to extend the scope of the talk to other countries as well as? Or maybe even in the regions? All countries. Okay. If that's the case, I have plenty of information. I'm willing to share with you. We can have ‑‑ from my country, of course.
(Applause)
>> Dominican Republic.
Average okay. Does someone want to be the facilitator? I saw you taking up. Okay. Great. Let's start with the first question. The first question.
Who is taking the first question?
>> As I understood the question it is about the relationship between the super nationals. And I ‑‑ I mean ‑‑ we don't really know the answer yet. My strong assumption is we see the convergence into international standards. It will be supported by the phones and the secure hardware elements on that. Sooner or later there will be a one‑size‑fits‑all solution for at least, let's say the particular regions in the world. And my fear is that not in all cases the systems will be governed democratically. That make them safe to use, particularly for vulnerable parts of the society. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you. Did that answer your question? Okay. There was a second question. Yes. Please add.
>> Yeah. I think I would just add to Thomas' answer. I don't think I can speak for the entire coalition. I think there's divergence in the views here. We're not a coalition that has a set viewpoint or advocacy position on any given digital ID question. We have diverse concerns. From the individual perspective, our position of my organisation which is the center for human rights and justice is each digital ID whether it is national or super national needs to be based on the principle of necessity. It needs to be a stronger understanding of where and why starting the ID systems are necessary. That certainly won't apply to every context in which the digital ID system is currently being implemented. I think other ‑‑ also just to emphasise the strength of our coalition is that we have extensive evidence and documentation of the harms that digital ID systems can create and can exacerbate in different context. I think what that has really shown is how important each individual context is. The political context, the economic context, the social context, and that having an evaluation of how a system should interface that context needs to be very carefully consider. These are not just technological systems. They are social and technical systems. It is very important to situate any kind of analysis about system design, system implementation in the individual context of each country and each region.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Uh‑huh. You see that community? I saw people nodding their heads as Katlyn was speaking. Okay. There was another question. What was the other question? There was a question around the number.
>> Almost 60 groups in the coalition now.
Civil Society. Oh. There's a one pager down here at the end with some more information about the community and there's an e‑mail address that you can get in touch with. Our new communication system that we set up. Yeah. Or anyone in the room. We're all here to talk to you.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Does everyone have the one‑pager? Pass it. You must get it. Is that the one? Uh‑huh. There's another one. It is the other one. Behind you. That one. Yes. Yes. Yes. Please. Please. Please. They didn't answer your question, Peter. You had two questions, Peter. They didn't answer the second. They are still thinking about it. They are ruminating. Ruminating. Ruminating. Any other questions? Any other questions?
>> Okay. I don't need that many microphones. Yeah. I don't remember who asked this beautiful question that I get to answer now. On our engagement and multilateral forums and particularly on ID. It has been a bumpy road. I think that's an assessment of relationship for the bumpy road. But I think that for the last year we have heard of very interesting conversation. This is a conversation that we had both online and later it is continuing. About the ‑‑ there's been some misunderstandings, let's say, in how we approach the identity systems from the space of Civil Society which is that we are not in the position of that it is bad necessarily. There needs to be a entanglement as the legal relationship between the person and state. And the ID being a tool that's used to accomplish that maybe. Maybe. Not necessarily. There's identification there that we are trying to disentangle. Then we are working on getting about the same page on safeguards and remedy. There's an ongoing conversations. That's what I'm going to say about that. This past year has been productive for us as a community. I'm not going to speak on their behalf. Did I something?
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh‑huh? Yeses. Comments? Yes. Oh. I love.
>> I have a question. I heard a phrase strategising public interest litigation. I was wondering if we are doing it and how? Secondly if I could join. Please let me know.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Let's take the next question.
>> Hi, everybody. There was a question that I don't think has been answered. It was about how the work has influenced the way that we are working. For instance, let me say what Katlyn is studying about the issues of multinational and national issues. In Kenya we can give an example through the civil societies. Kenya was to launch a digital ID on the 2nd of October. Through the platform and a lot of engagement, they suspend it. Through also walking together with counties like Uganda. They want to land more on how it is corrupt. It is corrupt a lot in India and Jamaica. Issues that are happening. Not so many people used to know about the issues of digital identification card. Right now so many people and the way that we are here there's so many people who are learning a lot from this. Let's keep it on. Let's continue and make more noise.
>> Did you hear that?
Okay.
(Applause)
>> Hi. I was wondering ‑‑ I think we've been tracking digital identity for ‑‑ what? Five years or more? Probably close to ten now. It seems like ‑‑ maybe I'm wrong ‑‑ there's a lot more momentum from the governmental perspective and also from the private sector perspective. Kind of the digital identity is going to be safe for the entry. Over the last years as the coalition come to a conclusion of what digital identity done right might look like? And is that possible? Given that, you know, there's just so much pressure from a national perspective and from a private sector perspective to implement this as we've seen, you know, in Uganda and you name it. Can it be done right?
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Uh‑huh. Quickly.
>> Well, I did want to mention something about the strategic litigation question down here. Which is to say that was in the heat mapping that we did that was one of the areas where there was a lot of interest across many different members of the community. In the sharing and learning piece that we talked about, we're holding a strategic litigation training workshop later this year. Join up now. You can come. There's a lot of ‑‑ there was one of the main interests, I think. That got on people's radar. Within the civil society communities from transnational exchanges especially. I had one thing I wanted to say about the question on digital ID done right. You know, I think ‑‑ I get that question a lot. A lot of us get the question a lot. I think it is the wrong question. A lot of what folks have been saying and responding to other responses, other inquiries that have come up is things are contextualised. In every single, local, national, and regional context. And digital ID is never done. It is the fact that it is implemented and it needs to be monitored and society changes. That's what we mean when we say it is a sociotechnical system. It is not done. It is not done right. It is needs frameworks so that we have constant feedback about people who are being excluded, about the way things are going to wrong. They are going to continue to go wrong. So I guess that's ‑‑ thinking about the structures that we put in place around it as human beings. That's how you can get more right.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: They nod their heads again. Okay. You had something to say about litigation?
>> I'm Peter from Access Now. We coordinate the digital rights coordinators network. I know there's some fierce advocates in the room. Some folks in the network. Some folks who are not yet in the network. We are going to meet on Thursday afternoon at 3:30. I think digital ID is definitely going to be on the agenda. There's an opportunity here for a private meeting on litigation. We need a better acronym too.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. We are working on that. I said we are ruminating. We're thinking. We're thinking. We're thinking. All right. Okay. We have a special guest. We have a special guest with us today. We have who? Who do we have? Who do we have, Laura? We have a special guest. Who is the special guest? Right there. Who is the special guest? Who is the special guest? Hey. Yes. We have the U.N. Secretary General Tech Envoy with us. Can we welcome him? Welcome, welcome, welcome. You see when you hang out in this community, you see the kind of people who come into your spaces. Yeah. Okay. Welcome, sir. I would like to give you an opportunity to say something.
>> Thank you very much. It is a great pleasure to join you. Such an important topic. The interface as Laura put it as sociotechnical systems. But might even add sociolegal technical systems. The interfaces are creating opportunities. But they are also creating potential problems, even existing problems. So we need to get them right. And we are very keen to bring together multistakeholder partners to build some safeguards of framework of safeguards around the public infrastructure at large. It is not just digital ID, but also payment, gateway, things that work at data layer. There's because of the G20 discussion many other developments. Great interest in DPI today more investments are going to come in. We have to make sure that these investments don't result in public input. They don't result in the socio, legal, technical, infrastructure that violate safety, security, human rights, sustainability considerations, and that will lead to exclusion of marginalised groups. So for that we've launched with UNDP and initiative on the safeguards last month. At a very formative stage. And we would like to invite all of those who are part of the coalition to help us get to that safeguards framework and to help us maintain that. Like the international standard that people in the civil society can use as a reference. But also those who are investing in DPIs who are development corporation partners of the crowd can use as design. Can use to inform their decisions inform their investments. Tomorrow ‑‑ this is a plug in C‑1 at 9:45 tomorrow morning. We will be doing an event with UNDP on the issue. It is the beginning of the conversation. Please help us get this right. And the insights from Kenya, Uganda, and Jamaica in particular. We can get those together and put that into the framework that we maintain as a living framework. Version one could be next to here with the summit of the future and maintain it after that. Thank you so much.
(Applause)
>> Thank you. I'm Kaitlyn Choffey. I'm a member of the coalition. I would like to say thank you for the tech envoy for joining us. It is a fantastic opportunity. There's a lot of energy in the people. We've already picked up some new members. It shows the importance and power of the coalition. It seems to many of us that, I think, this is a pivotal moment with the summit of the future, the launch of the safeguards initiative, the critical point that we're at with this sustainable development goals, and in the room, I think we have a lot of learning about the problems, the solutions, where things can go wrong and where things can go right. And one of the themes of the beginning of the session was that as a coalition and as individual members, I think we're seeking to become more proactive in engaging in some of the multilateral processes and some of the national level processes. I think it would be great to hear from you since we have you in the room today to hear a little bit about what you see the next six months looking like and the safeguards process, and where we'll be for the key opportunities to engage so we as coalition member as a group can be prepared for them. I think the final question is how do we ensure that the engagements going deeper than the unilateral consultation process which I think is always something that civil societies engage in. A lot of people are active in contributing the inputs. They want to be more engaged in a truly participatory process. How can we work together with you to make sure that reality in the next six months?
>> That's a great question. We are in the process of putting together a governance structure. There will be an advisory board and steering committee. Also in the process of putting together a list of learning partners. Those who have been engaged on the issue whether it is the digital public good, dial, or the initiative so that we can bring these players from the DPI ecosystem into the initiative and learn from their experiences. In terms of the engagement, the consultations, we like Civil Society with the private sector in some cases they maybe the lead actors in developing ID and other layers of DPIs if they are arranged in the sack. We'll develop a plan for engagement all the way up to the summit of the future where version one can be stood up next to hopefully a good, ambitious, global compact. This is seen as a concrete manifestation. Yes, we want to advance on the STGs by leveraging DPIs. We want to do it responsibly in the human‑centered, human rights reporting manner. I want to ask my colleague who is more into the design of the initiative to check if he has anything to add.
>> Thank you. Pleasure to be here. I'm Morowitz. Just referring how Civil Society can engage in the current process. We will have multiple convenings for the summit for the future. We will collect the input on the process. We're planning to set up a platform where you can share your ‑‑ share the experiences that you've made, should you not have the responsibility to engage in person during the convenings. Yeah. We will be sharing updates on the process in the next two months, I would say. Something like this. And ‑‑ yeah. If you have questions about that, feel free to reach out. We are looking toward to engage with you.
>> Fantastic. Thank you. Do we have any other questions? We are having a conversation here. Yes. Yes. Behind. I think that microphone work. You can give him that one. Thank you.
>> Good evening. I was asking myself should I ask the question? Let me just ask. I'm Moustapha from Kenya. From Kenya, here in DP you sign the name with the government of Kenya without engagement, in terms of civil society and without any launching the digital ID. Until the civil society were up in arms and all of that. When the government is launching in September. It is pushed. I was asking at this level where it is existing. How do we engage with the U.N. DP. There's a lot of risk of digitalizing exclusion. We are digitising 5,000 services. All of them are pegged to the digital ID. In Kenya, there's not access. The accessibility of the digital ‑‑ leave alone digital ID. The current ID is 50% level. Now all of the 5,000 services are going to be linked to a document that's not accessible. How do you protect that the U.N. does not have exclusion. It promotes issues of accountability. We don't have a lot of assessment. How do we hold the U.N. accountable in that situation and also get information right information from the U.N.? Because many this sector, we don't clearly eliminate you from government actor or Civil Society. We are like what side are we going to be part of? Government or civil society? Sorry. I don't want to look combative. That's the situation that we are in.
>> We're just engaging.
>> Yes. I'm passionate. My community has been locked out of the systems for hundreds of years. How do we hold the additional account table and get information in terms of the lines of engagement with the government and what are the protections that you have associated in terms of civil society and all of that. I would like to interact with that. My questions and you feel like you can address it now. I really appreciate it.
>> Great point. I have a very simple answer to that: help us build it. Build it together with us. Help us maintain it. So we can all be held accountable. If the U.N. agencies are the ones building out the VPIs and it is for services on the ground, you can hold them accountable as for the safeguards framework.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. Together in community; right? Okay.
>> Just wanted to add to what the secretary general technical envoy just said. The best thing the government can do is to develop the critical systems, their main systems, the federal system that's sustained the main public services or all public services should be uses open source of technology. Open source technology helps us to ‑‑ not just to understand how things work, but also the possibility for the communities from other countries around the world to contribute and see what we're building upon. It gave us the possibility to understand that most government systems can be safe. Can be secure. They also develop trust. Especially in the context where we are digitising everything. In the context of the digital ‑‑ it is the same. So in order to prevent most of the situations that we think most countries are facing with the data systems, the resource technology should be the base. That's the other thing we've been doing.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Great. There's an experience to learn from there. Any other comment? Any other question? Okay. One more, then we'll be wrapping up. Okay.
>> Just to respond. We've walked with U.N. DP. Can you walk with the government? You say have a simple look. We give you ideas on simple ways to walk. In most cases where you give out the idea, you have a good government. You can go and listen to them. In the real sense, the government doesn't listen to you. For example, we were brought into the room to agree that we've decided to walk together on the civil societies to extend the white paper that was provided. We did not know for the next public participation. The public is saying they are done. It has not been done. What room is there for us to really walk with the U.N. DPN U.N. to be able to share this. Because there's platform as you can see. Having that conversation it is not that. Also there's one question that Britt asked that has not been answered. There's been process. You cannot say the government is really not doing so. For instance, through advocacy with Kenya we've seen some communities that have been recognised as a community. They are going to be able to access the digital platforms and things like data protection act.
>> And your question?
>> I don't have a question.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Okay. That was it. Do you want to respond?
>> I think if you come to the event tomorrow, the colleagues from U.N. DP thereby will. I don't have the background to the white paper and the connection with the government. We can discuss it tomorrow.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: Exactly. The conversation will continue. 9:45 ‑‑ you can plug it again. 9:45. Where? C‑1. Did we hear that? 9:45 where? C‑1. Okay. An opportunity to continue the conversation. Can we imagine the conversations don't just end here. They continue. They continue online. Oh, my goodness. Oh, the community. Okay. Any other comments? Any other questions? Okay. I think I can wrap up. Anything?
>> Four minutes. We have four minutes. Okay. Yes. Seems you are joining the community. Can you put up your hands? If you want more information, you know who to talk to. Okay. Fantastic.
>> I don't have a question. I just wanted to make a statement that, you know, I'm from India. India is all of the glorified with the DPI structure as the outstanding model and it is going to push your economy to blah blah blah levels and trillions of dollars. I think there's a lot around it. I think that's the reason why I want to join the community. You know, to address the Mitts before even thinking about starting this kind of infrastructure in your country. Because you should ask whether you need it or not. Are you going to face the problems that India suffered? Because India suffered massively, because it started when I was ‑‑ when I was studying law. Now I'm in the position where I'm researching in this kind of structure. Myself will see it had its own problems. You need to work it out. I guess that's it. Thank you.
>> ASHANUT OKILE: All right. Okay. You can also ask her about the community. Okay. Any other comments? Any other questions? Can I wrap up now? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you all so very much for being part of the conversation. The conversation continues. Please get the one‑pager. If you want to get to know any other information about what the community does. Please enjoy the rest of your evening. The rest of your day. Take care now.
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